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  • FIRST POST
    • wjc96
    • By wjc96 5th Apr 18, 6:33 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 6Thanks
    wjc96
    Smart Parking PCN - First Appeal
    • #1
    • 5th Apr 18, 6:33 PM
    Smart Parking PCN - First Appeal 5th Apr 18 at 6:33 PM
    Hi,

    First of all - just wanted to show some gratitude for all the available resources on this forum (particularly the Newbies guide). Without them I would be utterly lost, and being a student I would certainly struggle with a 60 charge. Apologies if there are numerous other threads reporting similar cases but I feel I have sufficient evidence to get a result at the first appeal.

    Today, I received a parking fine to my home address under my mother's name (I am insured on her car). The PCN was with regards to an evening I went out for dinner and parked at Regis' Birmingham, operated by Smart Parking. The PCN informed me that I had breached the terms of the 'signage which is clearly displayed at the entrance to and throughout the car park [...] by either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted'.

    Luckily, I went back into the car and found the receipt of the ticket down the side of my seat (phew). Smart Parking have stated, with photographic evidence, that I entered the car park at 18:13pm. The ticket I have permitted parking between 18:24 and 19:24. The 11 unaccounted for minutes were spent:

    a) Finding a space
    b) Going to the parking meter (which was on the other side of a 100 yard parking space) to check the price of the tickets and pay for the ticket. I then realised I had insufficient change for the parking (5 an hour - ludicrous), so I returned to the car to look for/ask my girlfriend for change.
    c) Going back to the machine and paying for the ticket - which btw was also supposed to return change and failed to do so.

    Personally I was not aware that the allotted time began upon entry into the car park (which is not clear from the signage outside of the car park). I also believe that 11 minutes was a perfectly reasonable amount of time to conduct the aforementioned tasks. It's not as if I was 'enjoying' the services of the car park in the time that I was paying for the ticket.

    I returned to my car a minute or two before the timer ran out (I remember this because I was constantly checking my watch during the evening). I left the car park 4 minutes after the allotted time (at 19:28) as a few minutes were spent plugging in directions home and demisting my windscreen. Any CCTV footage they or the hotel have would clearly show my presence in the car park during all minutes that are not accounted for by the ticket.

    I am preparing my appeal now to send off by tomorrow evening but would appreciate any advice on how to approach this. Should I attach evidence of my parking ticket and a formalised explanation using my points above, or should I demand a POPLA code and do this at the next stage of appeal? Should I still contact Park Regis with a complaint, despite not being a paying customer of the hotel?

    Cheers!
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Apr 18, 6:40 PM
    • 9,312 Posts
    • 9,599 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #2
    • 5th Apr 18, 6:40 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Apr 18, 6:40 PM
    Have you complained to the hotel?

    That is the first thing to do, and as a customer it is in their interest to get this resolved.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Apr 18, 6:40 PM
    • 19,298 Posts
    • 24,551 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 5th Apr 18, 6:40 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Apr 18, 6:40 PM
    they dont use CCTV and could not use it even if it was available

    appeal as KEEPER, not DRIVER, using the template appeal

    you could add a paragraph stating that the BPA CoP covers the grace periods allowed and there was a valid ticket purchased at the time and here is a copy of it (keep the original safe)

    at this stage do not tell them who was driving, so no blabbing

    if they fail to cancel, they will issue a popla code , so no need to demand it , just adapt the template letter by removing the IAS part (for IPC members)

    and edit post #1 to indicate what THE DRIVER and THE KEEPER did , or have received

    no "ME , MYSELF & I" at all - keep it anonymous for now
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Apr 18, 6:46 PM
    • 19,507 Posts
    • 30,866 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 5th Apr 18, 6:46 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Apr 18, 6:46 PM
    First of all - just wanted to show some gratitude for all the available resources on this forum (particularly the Newbies guide). Without them I would be utterly lost,
    I'm afraid you are still 'lost'. The NEWBIES FAQ sticky makes it clear that the identity of the driver should never be revealed.

    Secondly, as Smart do not rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, they cannot hold the keeper liable. The NtK will be in your mother's name, and she is bombproof if the NtK (since I last saw one) does not meet PoFA requirements.

    Should I attach evidence of my parking ticket and a formalised explanation using my points above, or should I demand a POPLA code and do this at the next stage of appeal?
    Did you not read in the sticky that the PPC will ignore any mitigating circumstances and will almost always (despite good reasons put forward) reject the appeal.

    It's the one-size-fits all initial appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 that should be used - but if the NtK is in your mother's name, she must appeal. You can do the work, but it must be done in your mother's name.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Apr 18, 6:51 PM
    • 19,298 Posts
    • 24,551 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 5th Apr 18, 6:51 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Apr 18, 6:51 PM
    as above, if the mother is the keeper then the pcn is in her name and she is the one appealing it , nobody else

    a relative like yourself can do this on her behalf, but must ensure they have done it in her name as ultimately she is responsible for it

    as keeper she is not liable for the charge because not so SMART pcn,s do not meet POFA2012 (the law governing keeper liability)

    the drivers details do not need to be divulged , nor should they be
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Apr 18, 7:51 PM
    • 10,022 Posts
    • 9,865 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 5th Apr 18, 7:51 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Apr 18, 7:51 PM
    Write some very bad stuff on the hotels Facebook and TripAdvisor pages, they often cancel when that happens.


    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Apr 18, 10:32 PM
    • 61,816 Posts
    • 74,707 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 5th Apr 18, 10:32 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Apr 18, 10:32 PM
    I am preparing my appeal now to send off by tomorrow
    The NEWBIES FAQs thread has the template appeal, no altering it. No blabbing who parked!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • wjc96
    • By wjc96 9th Apr 18, 8:51 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    wjc96
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:51 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:51 PM
    Cheers all! Apologies for charging straight into a new thread - I was seething with anger at the time. I have sent off the template appeal under my mother's name and an assertive complaint off to Park Regis. Fingers crossed!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Apr 18, 9:03 PM
    • 61,816 Posts
    • 74,707 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:03 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:03 PM
    Smart are likely to fold, as long as the driver is not admitted, because they can't win at POPLA.

    One of the easiest ones to do, as long as you do it right, and so far you have!

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 9th Apr 18, 9:14 PM
    • 37,404 Posts
    • 84,290 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    You, your mother, and every family member should be complaining to your MP and Sir Greg Knight MP as advised by The Deep.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if they want further information about this scam.

    If you/your mother get a letter asking for the driver's details. complain again to your MP and Sir Greg Knight about this continued harassment by a scam company who have no right to that information.

    Tell all your friends where to come if they ever get a PCN.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • wjc96
    • By wjc96 30th Apr 18, 7:46 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    wjc96
    Received notice of my PCN cancellation today. Smart Parking didn't even contest against my first appeal! Thanks for the advice all.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th Apr 18, 8:47 PM
    • 19,507 Posts
    • 30,866 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Received notice of my PCN cancellation today. Smart Parking didn't even contest against my first appeal! Thanks for the advice all.
    Originally posted by wjc96
    Way to go.

    Well done, I'm sure your Mum will be relieved and glad you've come to the forum for best advice in dealing with this.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • UltraRevenge
    • By UltraRevenge 16th Sep 18, 3:29 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    UltraRevenge
    Well done.

    Did you just post appeal template into SMARTs appeals page?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Sep 18, 4:34 PM
    • 61,816 Posts
    • 74,707 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes they did.

    I know it's hard to believe but it is really that easy, and you cannot lose v Smart as long as the driver is never implied or admitted.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • UltraRevenge
    • By UltraRevenge 16th Sep 18, 7:50 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    UltraRevenge
    Thanks Coupon Mad. I shall submit my appeal today. Wish me luck, all
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