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    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 5th Apr 18, 3:03 PM
    • 42Posts
    • 21Thanks
    Polgara72
    ESA Work Capability assessment. Please help
    • #1
    • 5th Apr 18, 3:03 PM
    ESA Work Capability assessment. Please help 5th Apr 18 at 3:03 PM
    I have moderately severe depression and anxiety. For the past two years Iíve been in the support group for ESA, but I have to attend a WCA in two weeks. Iím terrified. Iíve heard so many horror stories about it. I receive PIP.

    Does anyone have any advice or experience that might help please?
Page 2
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 9th Apr 18, 12:51 PM
    • 3,391 Posts
    • 3,266 Thanks
    poppy12345
    What would happen if you didn't have any evidence? Not make the claim? If you only had evidence for say the physical difficulties and nothing that is less than 2 years old for mental health, would you make the claim for the mental health difficulties or dismiss them and concentrate of those elements that you do have evidence for?

    In an ideal world everyone that makes a claim for either ESA, DLA or PIP would have evidence supporting every aspect of their difficulties bound neatly in a file, in date order and be no older than 2 years. That simply very rarely happens. So you rely on telling the truth on the claim form only which is probably what the poster did.
    Originally posted by Danday
    As i stated before to you, evidence doesn't have to be within the last 2 years! I have no idea why you keep saying this. I've used evidence that's much older than that for PIP and ESA and i'm in Support Group and claim standard daily living and Enhanced mobility. Last ESA review i was kept in the Support Group without the need for an assessment. You keep making mountains out of mole hills but why?
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 9th Apr 18, 1:11 PM
    • 11,810 Posts
    • 13,675 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    You are able to send in older medical evidence but whether this is accepted depends on what the evidence is about.

    Older evidence may be useful if you have a progressive medical condition or have a condition which is unlikely to change/improve but for most cases they will need to see up to date evidence.

    This makes sense (at least to me) because there are new treatments/technology being developed all the time.

    Particularly in a number of cases of mental illness therapy etc may improve the condition over time.

    So, it really depends on why you are claiming but in the majority of cases the more up to date evidence the better.
    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 9th Apr 18, 4:18 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Polgara72
    In an ideal world everyone that makes a claim for either ESA, DLA or PIP would have evidence supporting every aspect of their difficulties bound neatly in a file, in date order and be no older than 2 years. That simply very rarely happens.
    Originally posted by Danday
    I am a former civil servant...so date order with the most recent at the top !!!128541;
    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 9th Apr 18, 4:20 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Polgara72
    As it was my first claim I didn't know that I was supposed to send evidence and you can use evidence that is older than 2 years for mental health i used evidence that was 3 years old last year on my reassessment and I will be using it again on my next reassessment.
    Originally posted by sandra1980123
    Thank you for that: I also thought any evidence had to be no older than two years. Iíve got much more I can send in now.
    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 9th Apr 18, 4:30 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Polgara72
    You are able to send in older medical evidence but whether this is accepted depends on what the evidence is about.

    Older evidence may be useful if you have a progressive medical condition or have a condition which is unlikely to change/improve but for most cases they will need to see up to date evidence.

    This makes sense (at least to me) because there are new treatments/technology being developed all the time.

    Particularly in a number of cases of mental illness therapy etc may improve the condition over time.

    So, it really depends on why you are claiming but in the majority of cases the more up to date evidence the better.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    This was certainly the case when I was a DM. The more recent the evidence, the better. That said, increasingly there was an awareness of the length of waiting lists in some areas, so older evidence was always useful (slaps self for not remembering this before). For example, I was referred to OT 20 months ago. I havenít heard anything yet.

    Iím on maximum venlafaxine (375mg) plus a number of other medications. So itís no longer just a case of the illness itself, but the added side effects.
    • Danday
    • By Danday 9th Apr 18, 4:50 PM
    • 393 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    Danday
    As i stated before to you, evidence doesn't have to be within the last 2 years! I have no idea why you keep saying this. I've used evidence that's much older than that for PIP and ESA and i'm in Support Group and claim standard daily living and Enhanced mobility. Last ESA review i was kept in the Support Group without the need for an assessment. You keep making mountains out of mole hills but why?
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    I am only quoting the rules relating to the review of a PIP claim.
    These are clearly shown on that form

    Supporting information

    8 Information we don't want to see:
    appointment letters
    information you've sent us before
    only
    anything more than 2 years old

    I have no idea if the same rules apply to an ESA review, presumably they do.

    There must be a very good reason why the DWP are insisting on these rules - they wouldn't just make them up for the fun of it.
    Last edited by Danday; 09-04-2018 at 4:56 PM.
    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 9th Apr 18, 4:58 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Polgara72
    I have no idea if the same rules apply to a ESA review, presumably they do.

    There must be a very good reason why the DWP are insisting on these rules - they wouldn't just make them up for the fun of it.
    Originally posted by Danday
    They say that to stop every care plan/note/summary of consultation written since 1875 being submitted. It all has to be scanned and every piece read, so they need to try and limit unnecessary submissions.
    • Danday
    • By Danday 9th Apr 18, 5:04 PM
    • 393 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    Danday
    .

    I!!!8217;m on maximum venlafaxine (375mg) plus a number of other medications. So it!!!8217;s no longer just a case of the illness itself, but the added side effects.
    Originally posted by Polgara72
    You learn something new every day so they say.
    I didn't realise that you could put forward an argument to the DWP that the side effects also caused a disability/sickess/illness?

    Mind you I can see the drawback. Whilst the medication will possibly have side effects as per the leaflet inside the pack, how on earth would you be able to prove that those side effects actually exist?
    If it was just as simple as saying 'here is my repeat prescription and here is the list that came in the box that lists all of the side effects that could happen - and in my case I have every one of them!' everybody would be claiming for them.
    • Danday
    • By Danday 9th Apr 18, 5:16 PM
    • 393 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    Danday
    They say that to stop every care plan/note/summary of consultation written since 1875 being submitted. It all has to be scanned and every piece read, so they need to try and limit unnecessary submissions.
    Originally posted by Polgara72
    Yes I can see that so they have a cut off of 2 years then? not 2 years 8 montths.
    The same way that someone who was 64yrs 364 days old on the 8th April 2013 has to claim PIP. If you were 65 before the 8th April 2013 you get to continue with DLA. One day makes a difference.
    I will bring this up when (if) I get to see the CAB with the MR application.
    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 9th Apr 18, 5:23 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Polgara72
    I didn't realise that you could put forward an argument to the DWP that the side effects also caused a disability/sickess/illness?.
    Originally posted by Danday
    I didnít suggest you could claim that a side effect caused an illness. But, in the case of many psychiatric drugs, they can combine with symptoms of the illness to exacerbate things. For example, I struggle to concentrate. One of my meds impairs my memory. The combination of the two means that my ability to perform simple tasks is more impaired.
    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 9th Apr 18, 5:30 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Polgara72
    Yes I can see that so they have a cut off of 2 years then? not 2 years 8 montths.
    The same way that someone who was 64yrs 364 days old on the 8th April 2013 has to claim PIP. If you were 65 before the 8th April 2013 you get to continue with DLA. One day makes a difference.
    I will bring this up when (if) I get to see the CAB with the MR application.
    Originally posted by Danday
    The cut off dates for DLA/PIP are set, not arbitrary and form part of the regulations (possibly legislation) governing those two different benefits.

    There is no hard and fast cut off time for evidence, as I stated in a previous reply. Evidence is about its usefulness (or otherwise) in relation to the claim it pertains to.
    • bspm1
    • By bspm1 9th Apr 18, 6:14 PM
    • 113 Posts
    • 216 Thanks
    bspm1
    The cut off dates for DLA/PIP are set, not arbitrary and form part of the regulations (possibly legislation) governing those two different benefits.

    There is no hard and fast cut off time for evidence, as I stated in a previous reply. Evidence is about its usefulness (or otherwise) in relation to the claim it pertains to.
    Originally posted by Polgara72
    You are flogging a dead horse.
    • Danday
    • By Danday 9th Apr 18, 11:51 PM
    • 393 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    Danday
    The cut off dates for DLA/PIP are set, not arbitrary and form part of the regulations (possibly legislation) governing those two different benefits.

    There is no hard and fast cut off time for evidence, as I stated in a previous reply. Evidence is about its usefulness (or otherwise) in relation to the claim it pertains to.
    Originally posted by Polgara72
    But you cannot deny that the DWP have made a point in their instructions that the evidence is not wanted if it is more than 2 years old. To me that is a hard rule - it doesn't go on to say 'give or take a few years or more'

    So what you are saying is that reports compiled by various medical professionals - psychiatrist, pain clinic etc etc which are at least 5 years old are valid where because of the type of conditions they are unlikely to change in the long term? But no one knows what medical science will come up with next week, next year?
    Last edited by Danday; 09-04-2018 at 11:55 PM.
    • Danday
    • By Danday 10th Apr 18, 12:04 AM
    • 393 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    Danday
    I didn!!!8217;t suggest you could claim that a side effect caused an illness. But, in the case of many psychiatric drugs, they can combine with symptoms of the illness to exacerbate things. For example, I struggle to concentrate. One of my meds impairs my memory. The combination of the two means that my ability to perform simple tasks is more impaired.
    Originally posted by Polgara72
    Yes, mix 100mg Morphine, 300mg Pregabalin and 100mg Sertraline the three leaflets that come with the medication tell me that I should be off my head.
    I gave up working from home when I was put on that lot as my brain could not take in anything.

    I never thought you could claim for that - it certainly doesn't tell you on the PIP notes. I came off the damn lot without telling my GP but he still prescribes it all. At least I feel fairly normal off that junk.
    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 10th Apr 18, 12:05 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Polgara72
    But you cannot deny that the DWP have made a point in their instructions that the evidence is not wanted if it is more than 2 years old. To me that is a hard rule - it doesn't go on to say 'give or take a few years or more'

    So what you are saying is that reports compiled by various medical professionals - psychiatrist, pain clinic etc etc which are at least 5 years old are valid where because of the type of conditions they are unlikely to change in the long term? But no one knows what medical science will come up with next week, next year?
    Originally posted by Danday
    It isnít law. End of story. Yes, documents five years old are sometimes valid because of the type of condition. Global developmental delay, motor neurone disease, quadriplegia - for example - are generally not going to benefit from advances in medical science.

    But if you wish to deem two years a hard and fast law, go for it.
    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 10th Apr 18, 12:12 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Polgara72
    Yes, mix 100mg Morphine, 300mg Pregabalin and 100mg Sertraline the three leaflets that come with the medication tell me that I should be off my head.
    I gave up working from home when I was put on that lot as my brain could not take in anything.

    I never thought you could claim for that - it certainly doesn't tell you on the PIP notes. I came off the damn lot without telling my GP but he still prescribes it all. At least I feel fairly normal off that junk.
    Originally posted by Danday
    Are you being deliberately obtuse? The culmulatibe effect of medication on top of the symptoms of the condition which make activities of daily living extremely difficult, has to be taken into account. Why do you think the DVLA has to be informed of certain medications? You cannot claim for medication alone.

    If you came off that combination without medical supervision then youíre a fool as well as obtuse. And are wasting valuable NHS resources.

    Oh, and FYI, the PILs are not gospel. They are bound to cover all reported side effects.
    • Polgara72
    • By Polgara72 10th Apr 18, 12:28 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Polgara72
    You are flogging a dead horse.
    Originally posted by bspm1
    So it seems
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Apr 18, 6:02 AM
    • 3,391 Posts
    • 3,266 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Are you being deliberately obtuse? The culmulatibe effect of medication on top of the symptoms of the condition which make activities of daily living extremely difficult, has to be taken into account. Why do you think the DVLA has to be informed of certain medications? You cannot claim for medication alone.

    If you came off that combination without medical supervision then youíre a fool as well as obtuse. And are wasting valuable NHS resources.

    Oh, and FYI, the PILs are not gospel. They are bound to cover all reported side effects.
    Originally posted by Polgara72
    Flogging a dead horse......so true! Another bit of advice, don't waste your time.
    • Tommo1980
    • By Tommo1980 10th Apr 18, 9:13 AM
    • 375 Posts
    • 589 Thanks
    Tommo1980
    I bet he still puts on his claim forms that he takes those medications.

    Why else would you continue to get prescriptions for medication you don't take.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Apr 18, 1:31 PM
    • 3,391 Posts
    • 3,266 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Yes, mix 100mg Morphine, 300mg Pregabalin and 100mg Sertraline the three leaflets that come with the medication tell me that I should be off my head.
    I gave up working from home when I was put on that lot as my brain could not take in anything.

    I never thought you could claim for that - it certainly doesn't tell you on the PIP notes. I came off the damn lot without telling my GP but he still prescribes it all. At least I feel fairly normal off that junk.
    Originally posted by Danday
    Why on earth would you still collect a prescription each month when you don't even take the medication? I've never heard of anything like it! Wasting all that money! That the NHS could put to good use on something else that someone else clearly needs. This just gets worse!
    Last edited by poppy12345; 10-04-2018 at 3:01 PM.
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