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  • FIRST POST
    • shapala
    • By shapala 4th Apr 18, 12:25 PM
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    shapala
    0 WOW
    Ryanair refused Brazilian family from flying - any rights for compensation?
    • #1
    • 4th Apr 18, 12:25 PM
    0 WOW
    Ryanair refused Brazilian family from flying - any rights for compensation? 4th Apr 18 at 12:25 PM
    Hi all

    Yesterday my cousins from Brazil were due to fly to Portugal from Edi to then get a flight back home to Brazil on Saturday. They had bags to put in the hold and they went through without any flag.

    Again, they got through security without issue.

    I then received a phone call from them during boarding and they were disconsolate as they had been told they couldn't fly - they needed a stamp on the boarding to pass to fly. They didn't have this. They don't speak any English and didn't know what was going on.

    Long and short of it is that they didn't board and only thing they were offered was a flight with Ryanair on Saturday for free - that's not an option as their flight back to Brazil is on Saturday.

    We've since spent a small fortune getting them a flight with Easyjet for tomorrow to Lisbon.

    Anyone know if they have any kind of case to take to Ryanair for compensation for the cost of that flight and possibly new costs incurred?

    After reading about it, this required stamp appears to be at the discretion of the pilot - it isn't law. Like I said, they don't speak English so didn't understand what was going on until it was too late sadly.

    Sorry for the long post but would be massively thankful if anyone knows where they stand.
Page 2
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 6th Apr 18, 7:29 AM
    • 8,261 Posts
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    PeacefulWaters
    Stoneman isnt saying claim on insurance he is saying make a claim for denied boarding from the airline

    If yu mean the airlines insurance ( do they insure against denied boarding claims or self insure) wont pay out a claim, how can you be so sure
    Originally posted by photome
    I think you missed the context.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 6th Apr 18, 7:56 AM
    • 3,774 Posts
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    Nick_C
    In accordance with Article 2(j) of the Regulation, "denied boarding" does not cover a situation where there are reasonable grounds for refusing to carry passengers on a flight even though they presented themselves on time for the flight, such as for reasons of health, safety or security, or inadequate travel documentation.

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52016XC0615%2801%29
    Last edited by Nick_C; 06-04-2018 at 7:59 AM.
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 6th Apr 18, 9:03 AM
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    jpsartre
    The minute they accepted your friends luggage they accepted them for that flight.
    Originally posted by stoneman
    I don't follow that logic. There can be many reasons why luggage would be accepted and boarding subsequently denied. I doubt this case would fall under EU regulations.
    • Westin
    • By Westin 6th Apr 18, 10:13 AM
    • 1,296 Posts
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    Westin
    I don't follow that logic. There can be many reasons why luggage would be accepted and boarding subsequently denied. I doubt this case would fall under EU regulations.
    Originally posted by jpsartre
    I agree.

    Whilst baggage is accepted (or at least deposited as it can later be "off-loaded") at bag-drop, the passenger is only accepted for travel when they report (with the correct documentation to travel) at the boarding gate within the stipulated gate closure times.

    Which bit of this story aren!!!8217;t you getting. Regardless if they required a stamp (it actually says on the boarding card you need your passport checked, no mention of a stamp) there was no one there to do it as there are no checkin staff at EDI, just one member of staff to supervise you use the self bag drop without any problems.
    And it!!!8217;s not a matter of insurance, it!!!8217;s a claim under eu261/2004 that wants to be done.
    Originally posted by stoneman
    I think this is a red herring as well. It is just speculation that there was no one to check the passengers passports and documentation. It is just that the passengers did not understand the check was necessary or where to have this done.

    This check is not conducted at bag-drop but by the airline handling staff at their ticket desk/information desk/customer service desk (call it what you like). I suspect at EDI this is a 3rd party handling agent Swissport and the desk was open but not seen by the passengers. I have not flown FR ex EDI but have from a hand full of other airports. There has always been a handling agents desk, with Ryanair signage, open when the flights are checking in.

    It is unfortunate but Ryanair make this checking of travel documentation clear on their website. I believe it is also printed on boarding passes where advance API is collected on non EU/UK passports.

    I feel sorry that the passengers did not understand this and if they are non-English speakers can see why. I do not however believe there is a case for EU261 denied boarding or a travel insurance claim.
    Last edited by Westin; 06-04-2018 at 10:18 AM.
    • shapala
    • By shapala 6th Apr 18, 10:48 AM
    • 343 Posts
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    shapala
    What makes it a little more complicated is that my wife booked it on their behalf under her RA account since they saved a few £'s due to currency transaction fees and rates if they booked it in Brazil. So could my wife phone her travel insurance company and enquire or would it have to be our family when they're back in Brazil and they contact their travel insurance despite it being booked under wife's name?

    Thanks for all the replies btw. I'll have a good read into over the w/end when I have a bit more time.
    • koalakoala
    • By koalakoala 6th Apr 18, 1:14 PM
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    koalakoala
    There won't be any refund probably, and an offer to fly on the Saturday was very generous.
    Lucky they only had to buy new flights to Lisbon, could have been worse.
    • stoneman
    • By stoneman 6th Apr 18, 9:41 PM
    • 4,186 Posts
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    stoneman
    I agree.

    Whilst baggage is accepted (or at least deposited as it can later be "off-loaded") at bag-drop, the passenger is only accepted for travel when they report (with the correct documentation to travel) at the boarding gate within the stipulated gate closure times.



    I think this is a red herring as well. It is just speculation that there was no one to check the passengers passports and documentation. It is just that the passengers did not understand the check was necessary or where to have this done.

    This check is not conducted at bag-drop but by the airline handling staff at their ticket desk/information desk/customer service desk (call it what you like). I suspect at EDI this is a 3rd party handling agent Swissport and the desk was open but not seen by the passengers. I have not flown FR ex EDI but have from a hand full of other airports. There has always been a handling agents desk, with Ryanair signage, open when the flights are checking in.

    It is unfortunate but Ryanair make this checking of travel documentation clear on their website. I believe it is also printed on boarding passes where advance API is collected on non EU/UK passports.

    I feel sorry that the passengers did not understand this and if they are non-English speakers can see why. I do not however believe there is a case for EU261 denied boarding or a travel insurance claim.
    Originally posted by Westin
    Speculation it maybe, but my own experience of BHX is worth considering. There is no checkin staff there, and no Ryanair desk. Swissport have a desk but there is no signage saying that they are the agents for RA. (In fact I only ever thought they dealt with luggage queries)

    The boarding pass states you have to present yourself for passport check, well the RA agent, in RA uniform looked at my passport when I loaded my bags, but said nothing. It was only because in the past that I was advised by the then checkin staff where I had to go that o knew what to do.
    Now anyone with the simplest intelligence would consider that a passport check.
    And this had always had to be done BEFORE they would check your bags in.

    Edit: just spoke to a non U.K. friend who uses EDI and there are no RA checkin staff, it!!!8217;s all self loading bagdrop. Swissport deal with the stamping
    Last edited by stoneman; 06-04-2018 at 9:55 PM.
    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
    • Westin
    • By Westin 7th Apr 18, 8:02 AM
    • 1,296 Posts
    • 957 Thanks
    Westin

    Edit: just spoke to a non U.K. friend who uses EDI and there are no RA checkin staff, it!!!8217;s all self loading bagdrop. Swissport deal with the stamping
    Originally posted by stoneman
    Thank you for confirming my point.

    Unfortunate error that neither the OPís wife picked up the passport check requirement upon booking, or the travellers seeing any requirement about the passport check on their travel documents. After bag drop the passengers needed to report to the Swissport desk (agents for Ryanair) to have their passports checked.

    Could perhaps the process be improved? Sure. Clearer warnings in multiple languages on boarding cards, maybe. How many languages? More staff at bag drop to look out for these issues, maybe, but that costs money and potentially increases fares.

    I still do not believe this is a case for EU261 denied boarding.
    • shapala
    • By shapala 8th Apr 18, 11:46 AM
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    • 14,539 Thanks
    shapala
    Thank you for confirming my point.

    Unfortunate error that neither the OPís wife picked up the passport check requirement upon booking, or the travellers seeing any requirement about the passport check on their travel documents. After bag drop the passengers needed to report to the Swissport desk (agents for Ryanair) to have their passports checked.

    Could perhaps the process be improved? Sure. Clearer warnings in multiple languages on boarding cards, maybe. How many languages? More staff at bag drop to look out for these issues, maybe, but that costs money and potentially increases fares.

    I still do not believe this is a case for EU261 denied boarding.
    Originally posted by Westin
    Indeed.....perhaps if you have bags to check in it should come up with a warning at self service baggage drop that a stamp is required.

    A few years back my wife flew with her Brazilian passport and upon checking in our bags it came up with an error on the screen. The person at baggage said it's a Visa issue as she was flying within 6 months of the pp expiring and hence she couldn't board for our flight to Croatia (another costly lesson). Something like that would be helpful to avoid not obtaining a stamp if you're aware you required one when flying with RA.

    I'll let you know how they get on with their travel insurance company though it's dependent on their policy, as always with these things.
    • photome
    • By photome 8th Apr 18, 11:59 AM
    • 13,037 Posts
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    photome
    Indeed.....perhaps if you have bags to check in it should come up with a warning at self service baggage drop that a stamp is required.

    A few years back my wife flew with her Brazilian passport and upon checking in our bags it came up with an error on the screen. The person at baggage said it's a Visa issue as she was flying within 6 months of the pp expiring and hence she couldn't board for our flight to Croatia (another costly lesson). Something like that would be helpful to avoid not obtaining a stamp if you're aware you required one when flying with RA.


    I'll let you know how they get on with their travel insurance company though it's dependent on their policy, as always with these things.
    Originally posted by shapala
    Travel insurance is unlikley to cover it, stoneman suggested a no win no fee claim, thats probably your best route but dont get hopes up
    • shapala
    • By shapala 9th Apr 18, 10:11 AM
    • 343 Posts
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    shapala
    Travel insurance is unlikley to cover it, stoneman suggested a no win no fee claim, thats probably your best route but dont get hopes up
    Originally posted by photome
    Absolutely not - they aren't expecting anything but you never know. I'll update once I hear back from them once they've contacted their travel insurance. Thanks again for all the help.
    • Archergirl
    • By Archergirl 9th Apr 18, 2:30 PM
    • 1,132 Posts
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    Archergirl
    Is it a check or a stamp? if it's a check how would they know if it was done or not?
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 9th Apr 18, 2:48 PM
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    jpsartre
    It's a stamp, that's why you cannot use an electronic boarding pass when travelling on a non-EU passport.
    • stoneman
    • By stoneman 10th Apr 18, 7:24 PM
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    stoneman
    I!!!8217;ve just looked at my return boarding pass DUB/BHX and it doesn!!!8217;t say anything about even having to have my passport checked, let alone stamped.

    So say I!!!8217;ve only got hand luggage, no need to go to bag drop, I present my BP at security, (because nowhere on it say I!!!8217;ve got to have it checked) , and I get refused boarding because of this?
    And don!!!8217;t give me the !!!8220;you should have read the T&C!!!8221; this is not some small matter, it!!!8217;s a major requirement that in the past has always been on the BP and webpage in Red bold.

    I thought it was strange that when I booked the flight nothing came up on the screen saying I had to get my passport checked, it always has in the past and I assumed they had relaxed the rule.

    I will leave this till I!!!8217;ve got access to a PC to screenshot and paste up here the fake booking I made and my BP showing that there is absolutely no mention that I have to have my passport checked.

    For the record I am no RA basher, I use them probably 10 times a year for placement flights, I think they have come a long way from the days of trying to get people to trip over in the booking process and being more lenient with luggage allowance. But this has got me going because it effects me personally.
    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 10th Apr 18, 7:55 PM
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    Nick_C
    Do Ryanair enforce this rule when travelling between the UK and Ireland? Can't find anything to say they don't, but as it's within the Common Travel Area it shouldn't be necessary.
    • mgdavid
    • By mgdavid 10th Apr 18, 9:50 PM
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    mgdavid
    ....... and I assumed they had relaxed the rule. ..........
    Originally posted by stoneman
    That's where you went wrong.
    Never ever assume.
    Always check
    (or accept the consequences).
    The questions that get the best answers are the questions that give most detail....
    • stoneman
    • By stoneman 10th Apr 18, 10:03 PM
    • 4,186 Posts
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    stoneman
    That's where you went wrong.
    Never ever assume.
    Always check
    (or accept the consequences).
    Originally posted by mgdavid
    I didnít assume in the end, I had to ASK
    But why should I check if there is no indication on either the booking process or the boarding pass.
    Last edited by stoneman; 10-04-2018 at 10:06 PM.
    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
    • stoneman
    • By stoneman 10th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    • 4,186 Posts
    • 3,148 Thanks
    stoneman
    Do Ryanair enforce this rule when travelling between the UK and Ireland? Can't find anything to say they don't, but as it's within the Common Travel Area it shouldn't be necessary.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    I have traveled to DUB from BHX in excess of 20-25 times in the past few years, last being last week, and it!!!8217;s always been a requirement as a US passport holder that I had to undergo a passport check.
    Last edited by stoneman; 10-04-2018 at 10:12 PM.
    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
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