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  • FIRST POST
    • ABC10minutes
    • By ABC10minutes 4th Apr 18, 10:27 AM
    • 7Posts
    • 2Thanks
    ABC10minutes
    CEL Parking charge for 10 minutes in hotel car park. CEL now taken case to court
    • #1
    • 4th Apr 18, 10:27 AM
    CEL Parking charge for 10 minutes in hotel car park. CEL now taken case to court 4th Apr 18 at 10:27 AM
    My car entrered a hotel carpark (about one year ago) to pick up a friend. The driver did not leave the car, phoned the friend who after a short delay came out and they drove off. CEL sent a parking charge notice with a picture of my car (with driver sat in car ) saying it was there for about 11 minutes.

    I have so far ignored all their letters which have just kept claiming extra debt charges.

    I have had the court letter from Northampton and have been online to do the AOS - will start my own thread - as there must be others like me who have ignored all their letters - and this site does claim to be able to win 99% of case.

    Any advice about how to defend - bearng in mind I have not replied to anyof CEL correspondence.

    My contention is the signing at the time was not clear enough - especially as the driver did not leave the vehicle. Subsquently they have put up new signage which is bigger but still not clear.

    Having read threads on here - I am thinking my defence will be
    1. Inadequate signage
    2. What right does CEL have to make charges if the car did not actually park up - the driver can't remember if the engine was switched off.
    3. The car park was empty and my car was not depriving any hotel guest a parking spot - so no loss to the hotel
    4. Should I use the question about Was I tresspassing not parking?
    5. I have been online to contest the whole charges - the "debt charges" I can see should be relatively easy to contest as they did not pursue the original parking charge (they just went to treats and poorly worded letters, unsigned by an identifiable human being) - that is in my view a separate matter.

    Can anybody point me to a succesful defence statement?
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 4th Apr 18, 10:34 AM
    • 36,573 Posts
    • 82,839 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 4th Apr 18, 10:34 AM
    • #2
    • 4th Apr 18, 10:34 AM
    The advice to ignore has not been given here since the law changed in 2012.
    Your points 2 to 5 are irrelevant.

    You need to follow the court guide in post 2 of the NEWBIES written by bargepole. You need to look at other appeal points such as non POFA complaint NTK, Grace Periods, and no landowner authority etcetera.
    Post your draft defence here for checking by the regulars.

    Do a (this) forum search, using Show Posts, and keywords such as CEL court.

    What happened when you complained to the hotel manger/CEO?

    You should also complain to your MP and Sir Greg Knight MP.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 04-04-2018 at 10:40 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 4th Apr 18, 10:51 AM
    • 4,089 Posts
    • 5,794 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #3
    • 4th Apr 18, 10:51 AM
    • #3
    • 4th Apr 18, 10:51 AM
    Why on earth haven't you contacted the hotel over this?
    they are responsible for the actions of their agents, and they can call off the court action at any time, or at the very least withdraw support for their agents to proceed
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 4th Apr 18, 11:00 AM
    • 9,095 Posts
    • 8,791 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 4th Apr 18, 11:00 AM
    • #4
    • 4th Apr 18, 11:00 AM
    Why on earth haven't you contacted the hotel over this?

    That was the first thing you should done, the second was to write bad stuff on the Hotel's Facebook and Tripadviser pages. It is still not too late for that.

    IMO they would be foolish to take this to court, I cannot see a judge agreeing that your dastardly behaviour has cost them the unrealistic amount they are asking for. As Fruitcaks says, this is a scam.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Apr 18, 7:50 PM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,946 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 4th Apr 18, 7:50 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Apr 18, 7:50 PM
    Any advice about how to defend - bearing in mind I have not replied to any of CEL correspondence.
    Copy & edit/adapt the one in the NEWBIES thread, a typical CEL example.

    Loads of people make the silly mistake of ignoring CEL, when it would have been a total slam dunk cinch to win on appeal. Never mind, these are a cinch at this stage, too.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ABC10minutes
    • By ABC10minutes 9th Apr 18, 9:38 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ABC10minutes
    • #6
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:38 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:38 AM
    This has been a bad year - after my mother passed away shortly before this business started.

    I am also very busy with my Dad who has Alzheimers - this was not my priority
    • ABC10minutes
    • By ABC10minutes 9th Apr 18, 9:48 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ABC10minutes
    • #7
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:48 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:48 AM
    Have now contacted the hotel. and said I will complain to my MP
    • ABC10minutes
    • By ABC10minutes 9th Apr 18, 9:59 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ABC10minutes
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:59 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:59 AM
    Also - I dide not have business at the hotel - my friend lives next door to the hotel but the road outside has double red lines so impossible to park on the road side.

    Also lots of advice on these forums says ignore the stuff from CEL !

    I realise I should have contacted the hotel and will do so asap.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Apr 18, 10:05 AM
    • 35,188 Posts
    • 19,295 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 18, 10:05 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 18, 10:05 AM

    Also lots of advice on these forums says ignore the stuff from CEL !
    Originally posted by ABC10minutes
    NOT HERE!


    This forum says the opposite for all tickets - especially CEL! (Unless issued in Scotland/NI)


    See #5 above
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Apr 18, 10:11 AM
    • 35,188 Posts
    • 19,295 Thanks
    Quentin
    I dide not have business at the hotel......
    I realise I should have contacted the hotel and will do so asap.
    Originally posted by ABC10minutes
    Your OP suggested you were collecting a customer from the hotel?


    You do need a reason why they should cancel - do you give them your custom at other times?


    (you need to remove details of who was driving from your post - the ppcs monitor here and can use your posts against you)
    • ABC10minutes
    • By ABC10minutes 10th Apr 18, 7:43 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ABC10minutes
    My problem contacting the hotel is they will probably say I had no right to be there as my friend was not staying at the hotel. I am afraid that will be evidence that will prove I am in the wrong.
    Last edited by ABC10minutes; 10-04-2018 at 7:46 AM.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 10th Apr 18, 8:15 AM
    • 10,400 Posts
    • 9,647 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    There has to be a reason why hotels employ PPCs. Maybe the convenience of their car park for non customers could be the main one? If so, then a letter to the hotel asking them to intervene whilst admitting to freeloading isn't likely to achieve the desired result, is it?

    Certainly admitting that in any court submission is akin to a suicide note.

    Best rethink your approach to the letter to the hotel and plan a court defence based on something like signage or similar.
    • ABC10minutes
    • By ABC10minutes 10th Apr 18, 1:40 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ABC10minutes
    I am minded to give in and pay up - but am loathe to pay a penny to these scammers.

    Have tried to contact hotel - without admitting guilt - but no reply. The hotel in my view are the ones who employ these firms without considering the effect they have.

    Maybe just challenge the excessive charges
    Last edited by ABC10minutes; 10-04-2018 at 1:49 PM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 10th Apr 18, 2:19 PM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 2,760 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Oh come on

    This is CEL

    Create the USUAL CEL DEFENCE - found all over this forum - and send it in
    THEN jump throught eh DQ hoop
    Possibly even the WS stage
    CEL will discontiunue before the point they have to pay the hearing fee.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Apr 18, 12:51 AM
    • 56,325 Posts
    • 69,946 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I am minded to give in and pay up
    Originally posted by ABC10minutes
    No you are not, it's CEL who are 100% beaten by this forum!

    but am loathe to pay a penny to these scammers.
    Good.

    And no, you DO NOT ''challenge the excessive charges'' that is NOT how to defend! NONONO.

    Any advice about how to defend - bearng in mind I have not replied to any of CEL correspondence.
    Copy another CEL one, even a child could copy one in crayon and beat CEL!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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