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  • FIRST POST
    C&Ps Mummy
    Should I continue to fight???
    • #1
    • 3rd Apr 18, 11:01 AM
    Should I continue to fight??? 3rd Apr 18 at 11:01 AM
    I unfortunately didn't read the forums here when I initially got a parking ticket. I very natively (in hindsight) thought when I produced my paid ticket that all would be straightened out.
    The basic facts are - I parked in a private multi story. I paid for a ticket and displayed it on my dash. I stayed for less time than I paid for and left. When I initially received the PCN the letter states that the charge was for non-payment and I was relieved to know I still had my paid ticket and thought once I scanned it and sent it through to their appeals department that the matter would be dropped. It was only when I received their letter in return saying the charge still stood because I did not have the proper number plate entered in on my ticket that realised the number plate was indeed not correct and there was only a letter B in the space for a number plate. I honestly don't know how it happened, I had my two daughters with me and was in "auto pilot" mode buying my ticket. Even when I received their response after I submitted the copy of the ticket I thought common sense would prevail as I did purchase a ticket, produced it for them and made no other violation than not checking my ticket to ensure my number plate had printed out correctly.
    I continued with their "independent" appeals site volleying back and forth. I do admit I did not check my ticket to ensure my number plate was correct but their machine also should not have issued me with a ticket that obviously could not be legal, being only one digit. Had the machine alerted me to the error when I was purchasing my ticket I would have corrected it, why in the world would I pay for a ticket and not want it to be legal?
    I think what they are doing is wrong and only meant for sheer profiteering and don't want to pay for the ticket but the appeals site has come back to me and said they have ruled that the ticket is legal because my number plate was not entered correctly. Obviously by letter of the law I am in the wrong as their signs state it is my responsibility to check my ticket. But don't they have a responsibility to provide a machine that doesn't issue illegal tickets? I see that many people on the forum just ignore these private tickets. Is this what I should do now or am I too late after going through the appeals process? I have real reservations about doing nothing but also feel very strongly about paying 100.00 for a ticket that I don't feel is legal. If I do not pay the ticket, can you please give me an indication as to what will happen next? I'm assuming from what I read that they will continue to hassle me with letters threatening court proceedings. Any other insight from someone who has been through it if this is all and for how long it goes on? Again, I wish I'd read this site in the beginning but didn't so just have to work with where I am now. Thank you in advance for any advice you have to give!
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 18, 9:31 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,470 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Please do what was already advised and a bit more robustly.

    Sending an email to 'support' got no reply, so did you phone the Retail Park Management or go in person to a few Store Managers brandishing the PCN and saying you are going to vote with your feet unless they can cancel this utter scam?

    Use the words and transcripts already given to you, not write your own. This should have been easy to cancel, given the circs and the previous transcripts about Excel's PDT machines failures, just like in your case.

    This was never about telling your story, it's about showing the evidence that this is endemic with Excel's machines, by all accounts.

    Not 'telling your story' not suggesting you were distracted.

    Saying toyour MP and to the Retail Park Managers and the Store Manager(s): LOOK WHAT THESE MACHINES DO TO PEOPLE - LOOK HOW IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DRAGGED TO COURT, AND WON - PLEASE CANCEL THIS AS I AM ABOUT TO GO TO THE LOCAL PAPER AND TRADING STANDARDS.

    If you are not robust enough now you will need to fight a claim in court.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-05-2018 at 9:35 PM.
  • C&Ps Mummy
    Despite much dialog back and forth with the MPs office and multiple attempts to contact the retail park the letters trying to collect continued and have now resulted in a "Letter Before Claim"
    The letter states if I don't pay by 9 November I will be taken to court. I am adamant at this point to continue to fight as it is such a scam but really need some additional guidance on what to do next.
    There is a reply form that says it must be completed or court proceedings will begin.
    Can I get advice on what to do?
    Also, how can I get notifications about this thread? I am having to search for it each time.
    Many thanks in advance for your help!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Oct 18, 11:25 AM
    • 4,158 Posts
    • 5,007 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You dont need to search> Just click your username. Takes you straight to your threads.

    Newbies thread, post 2, covers LBAs.
  • C&Ps Mummy
    Many thanks for pointing me to the information about the LBA. I have prepared a letter & would appreciate if anyone can tell me if it should be sufficient or if anything should be added. Thank you again in advance for your assistance.

    Excel Parking Services Limited
    F.A.O. Litigation Department
    2 Europa Court
    Sheffield Business Park
    Sheffield
    S9 1XE

    Ref:

    To whom it may concern:

    I was most distressed to receive your “letter before claim” letter today. I am writing this as a letter of reply that is required as per your letter.

    I am still absolutely astounded that you are pursuing this absolute farce of a parking fine. The facts of the matter are - I parked legally, I purchased a ticket, I displayed the ticket appropriately and departed the garage in the allotted time.

    Your ticket machine is responsible for issuing a ticket that could not have been legal yet it took my payment for parking.

    This should have been dismissed months ago when I wrote and explained these facts. You continuing to pursue this matter is an absolute waste of court time.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Oct 18, 9:20 AM
    • 38,006 Posts
    • 22,104 Thanks
    Quentin
    Advice on Responding to a lbcca is covered in the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum

    See #2 there
  • C&Ps Mummy
    Can anyone tell me if a court case will definitely go forward after the Letter Before Claim? Or is this again a way to try to get the fine paid?
    I am still very worried about what will happen next but am committed to trying to fight the scam.
    Also, I have scoured the newbie thread #2 and don't see a letter that particularly matches up with my circumstances. Can anyone tell me if I need more in my reply or if it is acceptable to send as is?
    Thank you again for your help. Many apologies for all the questions, I've just never had a situation like this and it is really taking a toll on my mental and physical health...
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 18, 9:15 AM
    • 38,037 Posts
    • 85,375 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Nobody can say for certain whether a scammer will proceed to court, so you should assume the worst.

    Excel have form for ticket machine failures. This might help.

    https://padi.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000965893-Machine-Failure-Excel-Parking-v-Mrs-S-C8DP11F9-
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 15th Oct 18, 9:19 AM
    • 3,784 Posts
    • 6,229 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    As you have done nothing wrong, why would you worry. Plenty of examples of these cases being thrown out.

    As regards whether there is a claim or not depends on NCP as this is all about hassle and nothing about the underlying facts.

    To paraphrase Eleanor Roosevelt, no one can worry you without your consent.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/11035-no-one-can-make-you-feel-inferior-without-your-consent
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 18, 10:08 AM
    • 38,037 Posts
    • 85,375 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    As you have done nothing wrong, why would you worry. Plenty of examples of these cases being thrown out.

    As regards whether there is a claim or not depends on NCP as this is all about hassle and nothing about the underlying facts.

    To paraphrase Eleanor Roosevelt, no one can worry you without your consent.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/11035-no-one-can-make-you-feel-inferior-without-your-consent
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    Or even Excel.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • C&Ps Mummy
    I have been very unfortunately chosen to receive a money claims online letter today saying Excel Parking Service is taking me to court.

    In a very quick summary this is what happened to me -
    I parked in a private multi story. I paid for a ticket and displayed it on my dash. I stayed for less time than I paid for and left. I then received their parking fine.

    I went through their appeals process providing them with my parking ticket & they said the charge still stood because I did not have the proper number plate entered in on my ticket. There was only a single letter B printed on the ticket. I continued to appeal yet of course lost.

    Could I please have some help in formulating what I can write for my defence?
  • C&Ps Mummy
    Issue date 14 November 2018

    POC:
    The Claimant's claim is for the sum of 160 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of a CN for a contravention on 20/01/2018 at Menai Shopping Centre (Bangor). The CN relates to a CAR INFO & Registration.
    The terms of the CN allowed the defendant 28 days from the issue date to pay the CN, but the defendant failed to do so. Despite demand having been made the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.
    The Claimant seeks the recovery of the CN and interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% at the same rate up to the date of Judgement or earlier payment.

    That's all it says on the letter. It doesn't represent what happened at all!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 15th Nov 18, 5:14 PM
    • 20,391 Posts
    • 25,754 Thanks
    Redx
    its a claim , so it doesnt need to represent what happened, that would be their evidence and WS which come much closer to the court date


    read the examples of recent 2018 defences and draft your own defence and post it below for critique, once the AOS has been completed online, by following the pictorial walkthrough
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th Nov 18, 6:34 PM
    • 11,319 Posts
    • 11,860 Thanks
    KeithP
    Issue date 14 November 2018
    Originally posted by C&Ps Mummy
    With a Claim Issue Date of 14th November, you have until Monday 3rd December to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Having done the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Monday 17th December 2018 to file your Defence.

    That's over a month away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
    8. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    Last edited by KeithP; 11-12-2018 at 11:42 AM.
    .
  • C&Ps Mummy
    Thank you for your assistance on how to proceed. I have completed the AOS and given my first attempt at my defence reply (below) and would appreciate your critique.
    There is a case I noticed from the parking prankster website that is similar to mine but I didn't know how to quote or if it was appropriate -http://nebula.wsimg.com/bfcdd95c68b82bcc6b68408a75d23021?AccessKeyId=4CB8F 2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
    I am willing to spend more time on my defence to make it more robust but I am drowning in the examples feel a little guidance will help get me closer to completing it.


    DEFENCE

    1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question at the time of the alleged incident.

    3. It is believed that it will be a matter of common ground that claim relates to a purported debt as the result of the issue of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) in relation to an alleged breach of the terms and conditions by the driver of the vehicle XXXX XXX when it was parked at Menai Shopping Centre, Bangor, in 2018.

    4. The PCN stated the contravention as 'Parked without payment of the parking tariff for the vehicle registration mark of the vehicle on site' and this contravention is denied. The Defendant denies liability for the purported parking charge (penalty), not least because it is already common ground that the correct parking charge (tariff) had already been paid.

    5. In Jolley v Carmel Ltd [2000] 2 –EGLR -154, it was held that a party who makes reasonable endeavours to comply with contractual terms, should not be penalised for breach.

    Defence - payment was made but the system hid a concealed pitfall or trap

    6. The Defendant made all reasonable efforts to make payment for parking by using an approved payment channel. Appropriate payment was made via the provided payment machine but said machine did not indicate any failure on registration entry and defendant reasonably expected a valid ticket had been issued.

    No agreement on the penalty and no contract formed by conduct

    7. The claim appears to be based upon damages for breach of contract. However, it is denied any contract existed. Accordingly, it is denied that the Defendant breached any contractual terms, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

    7.1. It is clear that no conduct by the Defendant caused the penalty to arise and a professional parking firm could not reasonably lay any blame with the Defendant, for their own failure.
    7.2 The charge offends against the reasonable and statutory expectations of trader/consumer relations requiring 'open dealing' and the doctrine of good faith.

    No legitimate interest or commercial justification

    8. It is the Defendant's case that there can be no legitimate interest or commercial justification in pursuing paying patrons for a hundredfold penalty, for not noticing inaccurate data presented to them on behalf of the Claimant.

    9. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Nov 18, 2:12 AM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,470 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Also send a SAR to Excel asking their Data Protection Officer by email, for a VRN list of payments made during that parking event time.

    There is a reason for asking for that now. You need that now. Search the forum for Excel v Ambler to understand why...
  • C&Ps Mummy
    Also send a SAR to Excel asking their Data Protection Officer by email, for a VRN list of payments made during that parking event time.

    There is a reason for asking for that now. You need that now. Search the forum for Excel v Ambler to understand why...
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I looked up the case and I understand why it is important. I can only find a very general info@excel email address or the litigation department email address on my paperwork. Shall I email those or do you know where to find a more specific email address?
  • C&Ps Mummy
    I have also just found this website, https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/enforcement/ and under the section Fairness of Contract it looks like sections are applicable to my case. Should I also add that to my defence?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 21st Nov 18, 4:43 PM
    • 11,319 Posts
    • 11,860 Thanks
    KeithP
    I can only find a very general info@excel email address or the litigation department email address on my paperwork. Shall I email those or do you know where to find a more specific email address?
    Originally posted by C&Ps Mummy
    Have a look on their Privacy Notices webpages and you will find their Data Protection Officer's email address.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 21st Nov 18, 4:47 PM
    • 20,391 Posts
    • 25,754 Thanks
    Redx
    also read the GDPR 2018 FIGHTBACK thread by coupon_mad because I posted the details in there a few days ago
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
  • C&Ps Mummy
    Have a look on their Privacy Notices webpages and you will find their Data Protection Officer's email address.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    I found the email and have sent the request, thank you for your help in locating it.

    I don't hold much hope they will be helpful in time after reading this line on the page -
    "We may be required to establish your identity before we can release information, but once we have confirmed this we will provide the information within 1 month of your confirmed request."
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