Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • dave808
    • By dave808 27th Mar 18, 3:39 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 0Thanks
    dave808
    UKCPS/UPP Same Company?
    • #1
    • 27th Mar 18, 3:39 PM
    UKCPS/UPP Same Company? 27th Mar 18 at 3:39 PM
    Hi,

    I received a PCN from UKCPS a while back, and have just been ignoring it, probably should have responded. Also have just got my first letter from DRP claiming legal action . However the letter from DRP claims that I am in credit to a completely different company, UK Parking Patrol Office.

    So the letters to the keeper so far have been from UKCPS not UPP.

    What would I do under these circumstances as I am guessing there is no way in hell I should be paying a company I have no received and correspondence from? Are these two companies linked?
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 27th Mar 18, 3:43 PM
    • 37,404 Posts
    • 84,290 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 27th Mar 18, 3:43 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Mar 18, 3:43 PM
    The Keeper shouldn't ignore a PCN. Not since the law changed in 2012.

    UKCPS and UPP are different companies, so this looks like two different PCNs.

    Post 4 of the NEWBIES tells you how to deal with debt collectors. You should however treat this second one as the NTK, since it is the first correspondence received about an alleged parking charge. You should therefore appeal to the PPC using the template from the NEWBIES telling them you consider this to be the NTK.

    The rest of the NEWBIES tells you how to deal with PCNs.

    Make sure you complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 27-03-2018 at 3:47 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • dave808
    • By dave808 27th Mar 18, 3:54 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dave808
    • #3
    • 27th Mar 18, 3:54 PM
    • #3
    • 27th Mar 18, 3:54 PM
    This is definitely just one charge, I have not received any correspondence from UPPO only from UKCPC, the last letter from them threatens debt collection, so have DRP just made an error, or are both companies really run by the same people?

    The area where the claimed PCN occurred does have extremely good signage so not sure how beneficial that reply would be?

    I also have only received one letter from DRP. Not sure how to proceed here as I am convinced this is all one parking charge.
    Last edited by dave808; 27-03-2018 at 6:22 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 27th Mar 18, 3:57 PM
    • 37,404 Posts
    • 84,290 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 27th Mar 18, 3:57 PM
    • #4
    • 27th Mar 18, 3:57 PM
    Edit your post to remove information about who parked. You were asked to read the NEWBIES but it is clear that you have not.

    I would appeal to UPPO using the information from DRP and see what they say. If it's a different case, all well and good, you will be following the correct process. If it's the same case for a different company, then you have additional evidence of a scam that you can use if this goes to court.

    It is not unknown for scammers to set debt collectors on a motorist without sending a PCN/NTK beforehand, so you need to be absolutely sure they are not the same case. A simple copy and paste and send will do this.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 27-03-2018 at 4:01 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • dave808
    • By dave808 27th Mar 18, 6:30 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dave808
    • #5
    • 27th Mar 18, 6:30 PM
    • #5
    • 27th Mar 18, 6:30 PM
    Apologies for the error, I did read through the Newbies section but thought this was a bit of an odd case. Would rather not be taken to court at this stage, is it worth sending the template email to both companies and await the response of both letters?

    *Edit* just double checked all the dates from both correspondence and I am 99% sure they are talking about the same PCN.

    Thanks for help
    Last edited by dave808; 27-03-2018 at 6:33 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    • 61,772 Posts
    • 74,680 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 27th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    • #6
    • 27th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    Email DRPlus and ask for evidence because you are completely unaware of any PCN from UKPPO:

    info@drpl.co.uk

    You MUST quote their 'reference' (on the right of letters sometimes) and your name/address.

    When they cough up details of the UKCPS PCN, just ignore them/Zenith. Waste of time company.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 27th Mar 18, 6:57 PM
    • 10,022 Posts
    • 9,860 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #7
    • 27th Mar 18, 6:57 PM
    • #7
    • 27th Mar 18, 6:57 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • dave808
    • By dave808 28th Mar 18, 8:07 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dave808
    • #8
    • 28th Mar 18, 8:07 PM
    • #8
    • 28th Mar 18, 8:07 PM
    So quick update, after double checking all the paperwork I received since the initial PCN ticket.

    The ticket was in-fact from PPO, but then all further correspondence was from UKCPS, including the NTK. Im sure about this all being one claim, as the dates from both match up.

    Attached is the response from PPO, using the template sent from the Newbies Forum, also to note the mention that they sent a copy of the NTK in the email response, which they did not.

    Please be advised that the time in which to submit a challenge has now expired and access to the Independent Appeals Service is no longer available.

    However, in order to resolve the matter, I will offer the following comments as to why this PCN was correctly issued and is still payable:

    The site in question is subject to terms and conditions, which are stated on signs throughout the area. Those signs clearly state: !!!8220;No Parking In This Area", see attached.

    Under Section 10, Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress.

    (1) Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons-
    (a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and
    (b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted.
    (2) Subsection (1) does not apply-
    (a) in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met, or
    (b) in such other cases as may be prescribed by the [F1 Secretary of State] by order.

    However, as per the Information Commissioner!!!8217;s guidelines you have no right to object to the processing of your data if -

    !!!8226; You have consented to the processing;
    !!!8226; The processing is necessary:
    in relation to a contract that the individual has entered into; or
    because the individual has asked for something to be done so they can enter into a contract;
    !!!8226; The processing is necessary because of a legal obligation that applies to you (other than a contractual obligation); or
    !!!8226; The processing is necessary to protect the individual!!!8217;s !!!8220;vital interests!!!8221;.

    We believe that your request falls into the above category.

    You suggest that we cannot process your data as you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention and you cannot be held liable for the parking charge as the registered keeper of the vehicle as the Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for several reasons.

    I enclose a copy of the Notice to Keeper which does show it is compliant with the above statute.

    !!!8226; The period of parking is clearly referred to.
    !!!8226; The discounted period was stated on the Notice to Driver placed on the vehicle. No discount is required to be given on the Notice to Keeper.
    !!!8226; Access was given to the Independent Appeals Service on the Notice to Driver. Reference is made to this on the Notice to Keeper.

    Furthermore, at no stage have you detailed how you believe our actions are likely to cause substantial damage and/or distress.

    You have referred to several cases to support your claim that your data is being mishandled. The cases referred to are not binding precedent and considering the above we believe we have full authority to process your data and you have no valid reason to object to it.

    Please forward any future correspondence directly to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd.
    Where do I stand now, as in my eyes PPO never sent me a NTK, and I have evidence that I have received this from a completely different company. Whole thing is a bit confusing and I dont want to pay PPO to then find UKCPS are coming after me still.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Mar 18, 1:29 AM
    • 61,772 Posts
    • 74,680 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 29th Mar 18, 1:29 AM
    • #9
    • 29th Mar 18, 1:29 AM
    The ticket was in-fact from PPO, but then all further correspondence was from UKCPS, including the NTK. Im sure about this all being one claim, as the dates from both match up.
    Can't be, they are NOT the same company. No connection at all.

    You do realise you won't be paying anyone? You are only at tedious old debt collector stage...
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • dave808
    • By dave808 29th Mar 18, 11:49 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dave808
    How else can you explain the dates both matching up exactly, I will write to UKCPS to get evidence as I have from PPO, but I am 100% sure that I have not got any other PCN's and that I will receive the same evidence, im pretty sure something fishy is going on and these companies are somehow related.

    What if they do decide to take me to court, what legs to I really have to stand on!?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Mar 18, 11:58 AM
    • 19,507 Posts
    • 30,857 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    What if they do decide to take me to court, what legs to I really have to stand on!?
    What if 'who' takes you to court?

    As you've provided very little detail on the actual parking event, difficult to say 'what legs' you might have. No need for the details now until/unless you get a claim. We help motorist successfully defend claims brought by parking companies, in the vast majority cases. Neither company is a voracious litigant.

    Sort out who you're dealing with first.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 29th Mar 18, 12:00 PM
    • 1,904 Posts
    • 2,581 Thanks
    Castle
    How else can you explain the dates both matching up exactly, I will write to UKCPS to get evidence as I have from PPO, but I am 100% sure that I have not got any other PCN's and that I will receive the same evidence, im pretty sure something fishy is going on and these companies are somehow related.

    What if they do decide to take me to court, what legs to I really have to stand on!?
    Originally posted by dave808
    UKPPO issued 13 claims last year out of 13,854 tickets:-
    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/UK_Parking_Patrol_Office.html


    (UKCPS 79 claims out of 48,000 tickets)
    Last edited by Castle; 29-03-2018 at 12:02 PM. Reason: Further information
    • dave808
    • By dave808 2nd Apr 18, 11:36 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dave808
    Apologies if I have not made anything clear. I have already contacted PPO, who have confirmed they did issue the original PCN, but I shall also contact UKCPS and confirm that as well before I report back.
    Last edited by dave808; 02-04-2018 at 12:08 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 2nd Apr 18, 11:59 AM
    • 37,404 Posts
    • 84,290 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Please double check and correct the initials of the PPCs involved.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • dave808
    • By dave808 2nd Apr 18, 12:09 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dave808
    Please double check and correct the initials of the PPCs involved.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Apologies edited, I will get a post right one day
    • dave808
    • By dave808 17th Apr 18, 7:24 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dave808
    Ok,

    So I have finally found out that these two PCN's are indeed separate, what fun. UPPO keep sending letters via DPR, so I assume I just ignore those at this point?

    UKCPS have just sent a letter upping the charge to 100 but I have yet to correspond with them, would the newbies letter be best for this charge? This charge I was not in the slightest bit aware of.

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by dave808; 17-04-2018 at 7:30 PM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Apr 18, 7:27 PM
    • 19,293 Posts
    • 24,535 Thanks
    Redx
    Ok,

    1) So I have finally found out that these two PCN's are indeed separate, what fun. UPPO keep sending letters via DPR, so I assume I just ignore those at this point?

    2) UKCPS have just sent a letter upping the charge to 100 but I have yet to correspond with them, would the newbies letter be best for this charge?

    Thanks in advance.
    Originally posted by dave808
    1) you mean UKPPO DRP (or DRPL) , not UPPO or DPR - yes , IGNORE drp

    2) yes, the NEWBIES template is correct for appealing ANY private parking invoice, at any time
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • dave808
    • By dave808 17th Apr 18, 7:55 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dave808
    1) you mean UKPPO DRP (or DRPL) , not UPPO or DPR - yes , IGNORE drp

    2) yes, the NEWBIES template is correct for appealing ANY private parking invoice, at any time
    Originally posted by Redx
    Yes sorry what you said for 1).
    and for 2). They have stated that it is past the date to appeal but I have read in the newbies you can appeal any time is that correct?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Apr 18, 7:58 PM
    • 19,293 Posts
    • 24,535 Thanks
    Redx
    yes it is correct, BUT they do not have to accept it after the requisite time period has passed, as detailed in the CoP of the trade body they subscribe to

    so yes you can appeal it , and they can refuse to accept it , or can accept it and then reject it

    there is no profit in acceptance, so will almost always reject anything you do apart from paying in full - these parking companies routinely REJECT appeals

    therefore, you are at IGNORE stage for both and only need more help if or when you receive a formal LBC or an MCOL within 6 years

    watch WATCHDOG at 2000 on BBC1 tomorrow night , learn about all of these sc@mmers
    Last edited by Redx; 17-04-2018 at 8:01 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

18Posts Today

3,789Users online

Martin's Twitter