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  • FIRST POST
    • dividendhero
    • By dividendhero 25th Mar 18, 8:57 PM
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    dividendhero
    Power of attorney question?
    • #1
    • 25th Mar 18, 8:57 PM
    Power of attorney question? 25th Mar 18 at 8:57 PM
    Hi,

    Have done searches etc on this point, but can't find a clear answer. Here goes..

    As I understand it, lasting powers of attorney are "triggered" when someone like a doctor signs a form saying person X no longer has the mental capacity to make decisions around finances etc.

    As I understand it, at this point the person concerned (say an elderly relative) and no longer make decisions and if they sign for say home insurance or mail redirection - these would be invalid.

    Is this correct?

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 25th Mar 18, 9:14 PM
    • 4,838 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #2
    • 25th Mar 18, 9:14 PM
    • #2
    • 25th Mar 18, 9:14 PM
    No, lasting powers of attorneys become usable as soon as they are registered. Ours were made several years ago so should either of us suddenly be incapacitated our attorneys can step in.

    I also held POA for my late mother, and used in when she still had mental capacity because she was frail and could not do her own shopping.
    • macman
    • By macman 26th Mar 18, 10:41 AM
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    macman
    • #3
    • 26th Mar 18, 10:41 AM
    • #3
    • 26th Mar 18, 10:41 AM
    You don't need to lack mental capacity to have a POA in use, plenty of people use them because they live abroad and need to be able to get things done on their behalf without being present, for example.
    All you need to do is to send a certified copy of the POA to the institution that you want to transact with so they can register it on their own systems.
    I had a POA for my mum for about ten years, but at no time did she lack mental capacity: I simply used it to handle her finances for her, with her agreement.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • Beenie
    • By Beenie 26th Mar 18, 1:35 PM
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    Beenie
    • #4
    • 26th Mar 18, 1:35 PM
    • #4
    • 26th Mar 18, 1:35 PM
    I am applying for POA on my mother's behalf as she cannot get out to the bank and pay her bills/do shopping etc.

    My understanding is that it allows me to do things on her behalf (banking for instance) because she is physically frail, not because she has lost mental function/capacity.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 26th Mar 18, 2:36 PM
    • 3,909 Posts
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    Malthusian
    • #5
    • 26th Mar 18, 2:36 PM
    • #5
    • 26th Mar 18, 2:36 PM
    As I understand it, lasting powers of attorney are "triggered" when someone like a doctor signs a form saying person X no longer has the mental capacity to make decisions around finances etc.
    Originally posted by dividendhero
    As others have said this is not the case - they are triggered as soon as they are registered.

    As I understand it, at this point the person concerned (say an elderly relative) and no longer make decisions and if they sign for say home insurance or mail redirection - these would be invalid.
    It's important to understand that the contract would be invalid not because a power of attorney was triggered, but because they no longer have capacity. The insurer would have to refund any premiums on being shown the doctor's letter.

    If they hadn't made a POA, the contract for home insurance or mail redirection would still be invalid. Of course, with no-one able to manage their day to day finances, it might take longer before anyone found out.
    • Collyflower1
    • By Collyflower1 8th Apr 18, 1:52 PM
    • 28 Posts
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    Collyflower1
    • #6
    • 8th Apr 18, 1:52 PM
    Registered an LPA
    • #6
    • 8th Apr 18, 1:52 PM
    Hi, I now have a registered financial lasting power of attorney for my elderly, 86 year old Mum. She is a little forgetful but doesn't have dementia or anything. My question is do I need to do anything atm regarding the accounts she has with a bank and a building society? The only problem I foresee atm is if she wanted me to move money into another bank for a better rate of interest. She may not be able to hold a conversation with a bank representative over the phone due to hearing loss and doesn't know anything about the passwords or questions ive answered for her to do the online banking. In those circumstances do I need to get copies of the LPA sent to the banks straight away?
    • Linton
    • By Linton 8th Apr 18, 8:44 PM
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    Linton
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 18, 8:44 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 18, 8:44 PM
    It sounds like you may be using her accounts without informing the bank/building society. Strictly speaking this is against the Ts&Cs. Better for you to register the PoA with the bank and building society for you to have official access to her accounts. Depending on the bank/building society you may be able to get online access and a card for her accounts in your name.
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 9th Apr 18, 7:56 AM
    • 697 Posts
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    Flugelhorn
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:56 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:56 AM
    Best thing I found was to take the LPA (original or certified copy only) to the bank, they will make their own copies and certify them and give you the originals back - then they will add you to accounts / give you your own card. I found them v helpful - that was RBS and Nationwide - others may vary!
    Much better than trying to pretend you are her ..
    • Collyflower1
    • By Collyflower1 10th Apr 18, 12:33 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Collyflower1
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:33 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:33 PM
    Yes, a certified copy to each bank seems to be the best idea. I think I can print a copy of the original on my own printer and not go to the solicitor to pay for extra copies?
    • Murdina
    • By Murdina 10th Apr 18, 4:47 PM
    • 408 Posts
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    Murdina
    I implemented LPA for my father last year. He does now lack mental capacity for most financial tasks.
    A copy needs to be certified by a solicitor - most organisations did insist on this; indeed one even queried if the solicitor had copied it properly! Others accepted photocopies.
    Some organisations just ask you to say whether or not the person lacks capacity. The difference this makes is that - if they do - only you can transact - if they do not - then you can both transact. Since at least one organisation asked me for documentation which simply does not exist to "prove" my father's situation, I just left it on the basis he would never now manage to get through to anyone on the phone and have a sensible conversation.
    • Murdina
    • By Murdina 10th Apr 18, 4:51 PM
    • 408 Posts
    • 184 Thanks
    Murdina
    Collyflower 1 you will also find that each bank has a different process - it is not just a question of sending them a copy. I spent two hours over 2 days with one bank while they did all their admin (bear in mind you will need to do all the money laundering stuff proving your identity etc if you do not also bank there).
    Another did everything very quickly on a visit then totally and utterly messed up - took a day of phone calls to resolve but at least my father was 100 better off at the end of it.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 11th Apr 18, 12:48 PM
    • 6,434 Posts
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    TBagpuss
    Yes, a certified copy to each bank seems to be the best idea. I think I can print a copy of the original on my own printer and not go to the solicitor to pay for extra copies?
    Originally posted by Collyflower1
    No, that would not be a certified copy. You may be able to take the original with you, and have the bank copy and certify it. For powers of attorney, you would normally need to have every page of the document separately stamped and certified, with a second stamp on the last page confirming the number of pages.

    For a financial POA, your mum can continue use accounts, deal with the bank etc.but she can also, through the POA, give you power to do the same on her behalf. Then, if your mum gets to the point where she no longer has capacity, you would need to register the POA, and then you would deal solely with those things.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 11th Apr 18, 1:23 PM
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    sheramber
    The person making the Power of Attorney stipulates when it comes into force so they can state that it can only to be used when they no longer have mental capacity or it can be used immediately.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 11th Apr 18, 1:26 PM
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    sheramber
    note there are different processes for England, Scotland and Northern Ireland
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 11th Apr 18, 7:36 PM
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    silvercar
    MSE article on main site here.
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    • Collyflower1
    • By Collyflower1 12th Apr 18, 10:30 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Collyflower1
    Hi, ive just got around to reading the letter accompanying the LPA and the donor can also make a certified copy as long as they have mental capacity. They must;


    1. Make a photocopy.
    2. At bottom of each page ''I certify this is a true & complete copy of the corresponding page of the original LPA.
    3. Final page ''I certify this is a true and complete copy of the corresponding page of the original LPA. I certify this is a true & complete copy of the LPA''
    4. Sign & date each page.
    • Collyflower1
    • By Collyflower1 15th Apr 18, 7:35 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Collyflower1
    Got an appointment at both banks next Monday. They will both do a certified copy of the LPA as I wait, send the copies off and then I should get the ok back in the post in 2-3 weeks. Hopefully!
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 15th Apr 18, 8:10 AM
    • 697 Posts
    • 886 Thanks
    Flugelhorn
    Got an appointment at both banks next Monday. They will both do a certified copy of the LPA as I wait, send the copies off and then I should get the ok back in the post in 2-3 weeks. Hopefully!
    Originally posted by Collyflower1
    Yes, that is the best way to do it, mine took about a week. Just make sure they give you all the pages back (and the right copy) when they have photocopied it!

    I have found now that banks and big organisations are well set up for these situations and have thought them through eg British Gas have a dedicated email - thirdpartysupport@.... for POAs etc
    • I Love comps
    • By I Love comps 15th Apr 18, 8:21 AM
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    I Love comps
    If a doctor has signed a form saying that a person lacks mental capacity. Then you would not be able to apply for POA, unless it was already in place.

    You would need a Court of protection - which means you would be a deputy over that persons affairs.
    I'm a Board Guide on all of the Shopping Boards. "I am a volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly.
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