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  • FIRST POST
    • Cathcoo
    • By Cathcoo 24th Mar 18, 12:09 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Cathcoo
    Share dealing platforms - totally confused
    • #1
    • 24th Mar 18, 12:09 PM
    Share dealing platforms - totally confused 24th Mar 18 at 12:09 PM
    I'm having a nightmare trying to pick a good, reasonably cheap trading platform from all the clashing info and reviews out there.
    I'd just settled on Hargreaves Landsdown because of their wide range of funds, recommended mobile app and customer service when I took a peek at Trustpilot, where hundreds of unhappy HL customers are queuing up to say how dreadful Hargreaves is for customer service and online trading. AJ Bell apparently isn't much better.
    I just want a platform with a broad investment universe, a good app, no flat fee and helpful customer service which doesn't cost the Earth. Any ideas?
Page 5
    • dont_use_vistaprint
    • By dont_use_vistaprint 31st Mar 18, 6:30 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    dont_use_vistaprint
    In addition the OP mentioned customer service, I've never had a problem getting hold of Vanguard on the phone, they stayed on the line and walked through a few scenarios with me , explained in detail how transaction timing works regarding deals made overnight and during the day.

    The only downside I can see is there's no app, getting access to the current prices and making a deal quickly is a bit of a faff on a phone. Also I can't see any way of setting buy/sell alerts /thresholds - does anyone know a similar platform with these features
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 31st Mar 18, 9:26 AM
    • 8,247 Posts
    • 15,049 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    What I don't understand is that if you have someone on your ignore list then you don't get to see to see response. The only way that I know to actually see the response and to know they have responded to you is to remove them from the ignore list.

    This appears to be a limitation of the system, unless I am wrong?
    Originally posted by greenglide
    The system works as intended. If you don't want to see someone's posts because they are obnoxious or a spammer or you just don't like what they have to say, you flag them to be ignored - then whenever they write anything the system knows you don't want to see it, so in the gap between other people's posts, it replaces the ignored person's post with a line of text saying there would have been a post here but you're ignoring its author. So you don't have to scroll past several paragraphs of text that you don't want to read, but the post numbering of everyone else's posts keeps its integrity. You'll only see the ignored person's words if someone who's not ignored, quotes them in their own not-ignored posts.

    However, Valiant keeps engaging with A_T and writing posts to him saying "remember, I'm ignoring you" and then seeing there are some later posts from A_T, and replying "hey, you're still replying to me". If he's genuinely got the ignore function on, he won't of course know whether A_T is replying to him, or replying to me, or posting some new content which isn't a reply to anything specific. Unless he goes back to his control panel and temporarily un-ignores A_T then comes back to the thread to see what was said.

    The fact that he is saying 'stop replying to me, I can't see it' implies that a) he hasn't really ignored him at all; or b) he has ignored him but doesn't want to miss out so keeps unignoring him; or c) he has genuinely marked him on ignore but is so egotistical that when he can see thaht A_T has contributed something to the thread he assumes it must be addressed to him, and feels compelled to write another post to tell that other poster not to keep talking to him because "la la la I'm not listening"

    The very fact that you felt it necessary to reply after I had said you were on my ignore list just demonstrates that you have to have the last word and you can't let things go.
    Originally posted by ValiantSon
    A-T, you are still replying to me, but as I keep pointing out, you are on my ignore list, so I don't see what you post! This all adds to my view that you just have to have the last word.
    Originally posted by ValiantSon
    It does rather seem, that when you can't even see that someone has said anything on the thread directed at you (because you have had the system redact the contents of their post), but just in case it was something directed at you, you still keep telling them and the world that they are ignored and should not say anything more on this thread - it is YOU who are trying to have the last word, like a five year old rather than a grown adult. You have electronically censored what the other person has said so that you don't even know if they are talking to you, but just in case they are talking to you, if you observe they've written a post you will say 'stop trying to get the last word', thereby grabbing the last word for yourself.

    It's somewhat amusing to see someone throw a tantrum like this. Can I go on the ignore list too please?
    • Herbalus
    • By Herbalus 31st Mar 18, 9:33 AM
    • 2,106 Posts
    • 1,741 Thanks
    Herbalus
    Stop replying to me Bowlhead. You know I cant read what you write.

    • A_T
    • By A_T 31st Mar 18, 9:40 AM
    • 525 Posts
    • 358 Thanks
    A_T

    The only downside I can see is there's no app, getting access to the current prices and making a deal quickly is a bit of a faff on a phone. Also I can't see any way of setting buy/sell alerts /thresholds - does anyone know a similar platform with these features
    Originally posted by dont_use_vistaprint
    I've found the Vanguard website quite effective on a phone but you're right a dedicated app would be an improvement.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 31st Mar 18, 9:59 AM
    • 8,247 Posts
    • 15,049 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    One thing I've noticed though, if you don't pay regular amounts in, if you wait instead for the right price to buy and wait to long, it automaticallym sells and does a buy, and then emails you telling you have 3 lives left or something. So I just make a small regular payment to LS20 which is the lowest risk.
    Originally posted by dont_use_vistaprint
    Their product terms talk about their funds having minimum investment of 500 or regular investments of 100 per month. If you buy less than 500 of something and then don't carry on making regular investments, it stands to reason that they would say "oi, you're not supposed to use our service like this".

    Or maybe you are needing to pay the periodic 0.15%/yr admin fee and don't have enough cash sitting around in the account, so they had to sell something to release a few pounds of cash to cover your fees.

    I've not looked at how to buy / sell FX here , don't know if its possible
    I don't think they offer a multicurrency cash account as haven't seen them advertising that functionality, but happy to be corrected if so.
    The only downside I can see is there's no app, getting access to the current prices and making a deal quickly is a bit of a faff on a phone. Also I can't see any way of setting buy/sell alerts /thresholds - does anyone know a similar platform with these features
    Originally posted by dont_use_vistaprint
    Best to treat investing as a long term process. It's very unlikely that you really *need* to know the current price or 'make a deal quickly'.

    As open-ended funds (OEICs / Unit Trusts) are forward priced, fund platforms don't take stop or limit orders for them, though some brokers will do stops and limits on ETFs as they are exchange traded products with live prices throughout the business day, just like individual company shares. Some brokers (like HL.co.uk) do emailed price alerts for shares but not sure if they extend it to ETFs too (used to be just FTSE350 stocks). You may find third-party financial news information services to be your best bet, e.g. http://www.londonstockexchange.com/prices-and-markets/stocks/tools-and-services/email-alerts/email-alerts.htm although the stock exchange won't carry OEIC prices.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 31st Mar 18, 10:49 AM
    • 2,537 Posts
    • 2,511 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    The system works as intended. If you don't want to see someone's posts because they are obnoxious or a spammer or you just don't like what they have to say, you flag them to be ignored - then whenever they write anything the system knows you don't want to see it, so in the gap between other people's posts, it replaces the ignored person's post with a line of text saying there would have been a post here but you're ignoring its author. So you don't have to scroll past several paragraphs of text that you don't want to read, but the post numbering of everyone else's posts keeps its integrity. You'll only see the ignored person's words if someone who's not ignored, quotes them in their own not-ignored posts.

    However, Valiant keeps engaging with A_T and writing posts to him saying "remember, I'm ignoring you" and then seeing there are some later posts from A_T, and replying "hey, you're still replying to me". If he's genuinely got the ignore function on, he won't of course know whether A_T is replying to him, or replying to me, or posting some new content which isn't a reply to anything specific. Unless he goes back to his control panel and temporarily un-ignores A_T then comes back to the thread to see what was said.

    The fact that he is saying 'stop replying to me, I can't see it' implies that a) he hasn't really ignored him at all; or b) he has ignored him but doesn't want to miss out so keeps unignoring him; or c) he has genuinely marked him on ignore but is so egotistical that when he can see thaht A_T has contributed something to the thread he assumes it must be addressed to him, and feels compelled to write another post to tell that other poster not to keep talking to him because "la la la I'm not listening"


    It does rather seem, that when you can't even see that someone has said anything on the thread directed at you (because you have had the system redact the contents of their post), but just in case it was something directed at you, you still keep telling them and the world that they are ignored and should not say anything more on this thread - it is YOU who are trying to have the last word, like a five year old rather than a grown adult. You have electronically censored what the other person has said so that you don't even know if they are talking to you, but just in case they are talking to you, if you observe they've written a post you will say 'stop trying to get the last word', thereby grabbing the last word for yourself.

    It's somewhat amusing to see someone throw a tantrum like this. Can I go on the ignore list too please?
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Whatever.

    If I'm behaving like a five year old then what does it say about you who is trying to provoke that said behaviour?
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 31st Mar 18, 11:53 AM
    • 8,247 Posts
    • 15,049 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Whatever.

    If I'm behaving like a five year old then what does it say about you who is trying to provoke that said behaviour?
    Originally posted by ValiantSon
    La la la I'm not listening.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 31st Mar 18, 12:03 PM
    • 2,537 Posts
    • 2,511 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    La la la I'm not listening.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Writing patronising posts containing ad hominem attacks on me (or anyone else) could reasonably be considered to be childish behaviour. You accused me of being childish, but your own behaviour has been, so you are just as guilty as you claim I am. If you really believe that I am wrong in my behaviour (not that it has affected you) then surely the adult way to behave would be to ignore me.

    Many of your posts on this forum are informative (if rather verbose), but you can sometimes come across as patronising. I tend to assume that this is unintentional when I read your replies (not necessarily to me) and give you the benefit of the doubt. However, when you weigh in on argument between others and then descend to making personal attacks I start to wonder if your previously noted patronising tone is less accidental than I first assumed.

    Dealing, as I do on a regular basis, with children who are engaged with bullying behaviour, your recent posts, including the last one, would fit that category. It is sad to see the descent of apparently intelligent adults into this kind of behaviour because they are protected behind the anonymity of the internet.
    • TBC15
    • By TBC15 31st Mar 18, 1:09 PM
    • 554 Posts
    • 286 Thanks
    TBC15
    Hands up, who just googled hominem.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 31st Mar 18, 2:15 PM
    • 8,247 Posts
    • 15,049 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Writing patronising posts containing ad hominem attacks on me (or anyone else) could reasonably be considered to be childish behaviour. You accused me of being childish, but your own behaviour has been, so you are just as guilty as you claim I am.
    Originally posted by ValiantSon
    Well, two wrongs don't make a right, do they. I generally look to criticise the argument if there's one worth criticising, but is someone is flooding a thread with childish behaviour then criticising the behaviour is a fine thing to do, so I did. And surely you wouldn't be offended by me making childish quips when you yourself are being childish, I'm happy to join the party.

    If you really believe that I am wrong in my behaviour (not that it has affected you) then surely the adult way to behave would be to ignore me.
    No, I don't know about that. If I see someone dropping litter in the street I'm walking down, maybe I should call out that person for dropping litter on my street (even though I don't own the street). It's the adult way to behave and may discourage them from doing it again even when nobody is looking.

    Likewise if I see someone being silly online on the forum on which I'm posting, maybe I should call out that person for being silly online (even though I don't own the forum) in the hope that it discourages them from doing it again.

    However, when you weigh in on argument between others
    If one has an opinion, one can join one side or the other of the argument. That's what discussion forums are for...

    and then descend to making personal attacks I start to wonder if your previously noted patronising tone is less accidental than I first assumed.
    Don't worry, I was not attacking the person, just the behaviour, which went:

    #67 "I can't provide a quote to back up what I said that you'd said but it's evident you're spoiling for an argument and I'm not so I'm not going to continue"

    #69 "it's evident you're spoiling for an argument but I'm not going to continue this and now you're on ignore"

    #71 "you keep saying things after I've told you you're on ignore, stop trying to have the last word, I'm saying this for the last time as I'm not going to continue this"

    #75 "hello I still can't see what you're posting but I assume you're replying to me, this just proves you are trying to have the last word but as I keep pointing out, you are on my ignore list, I look forward to seeing your next post which I'll ignore"

    #79 "It took you 11 minutes to reply to me [though you are on ignore so I don't know if you were replying to me or not]"

    Wow.
    Dealing, as I do on a regular basis, with children who are engaged with bullying behaviour, your recent posts, including the last one, would fit that category. It is sad to see the descent of apparently intelligent adults into this kind of behaviour because they are protected behind the anonymity of the internet.
    Was it post #82 where I said it was amusing to watch you have a tantrum (not that I would condone mocking adults who have genuine mental problems, but cracking a smile at this seemed more like being amused by cartoon violence / car crash TV / a bit of schadenfreude) - or #87 where I 'ironically' said I wasn't listening to you and used the dancing emoticon - that you took as me bullying you?

    I will of course understand if you decline to have the last word.
    • Zorillo
    • By Zorillo 2nd Apr 18, 10:29 PM
    • 361 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    Zorillo
    Yes, that would be the right thing to do. And as you say, the amount you are reserving is prudent enough to very comfortably cover the fees. If the fund performed such that for the average of the whole year, its value was 6000: the average quarterly charge would be less than four quid. And being realistic, it isn't going to perform that well. But reserving 25 and investing the rest isn't going to cripple your performance compared to only reserving 15 or 12.

    So, you could place your order to buy 3975 of the fund, exclusive of dealing fee. And then the dealing fee of 1.50 will leave you with 23.50 cash in the account out of the original 4000, and then at the end of every April, July, September, January they will take the fee for the quarter just gone, but the fees won't be high enough to totally deplete the 23.50 between now and next April. Obviously if you add new money from your 2018/19 allowance during that time, or the fund grows spectacularly, the fees will start to tick up.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Thanks Bowlhead.

    Two more things.
    1) I placed the order on Friday night; does the fact that today was a BH here but not in the US and the markets there dipped today work in my favour, as my order will go through tomorrow, or is it irrelevant as I'll pay whatever the price was at the weekend? I assume the former, but my luck doesn't normally work that way.

    2) I had planned to buy ACC units but on reviewing my order I have bought INC units through carelessness. Is this a big problem (other than either incurring dealing fees or having small amounts of cash uninvested whilst I wait for my next planned deal)? Would the solution be to sell them and rebuy ACC and incur 3 dealing charges (plus whatever way the markets move), and if so is it worth it?
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 2nd Apr 18, 11:17 PM
    • 8,247 Posts
    • 15,049 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Thanks Bowlhead.

    Two more things.
    1) I placed the order on Friday night; does the fact that today was a BH here but not in the US and the markets there dipped today work in my favour, as my order will go through tomorrow, or is it irrelevant as I'll pay whatever the price was at the weekend? I assume the former, but my luck doesn't normally work that way.
    Originally posted by Zorillo
    There won't have been any subscription or redemption requests accepted on Friday night or Saturday or Sunday or Monday as they were not UK business days.

    So, your platform provider (e.g. AJ Bell) would recognise your order that you dropped into him outside business hours, when it's next business hours - i.e. on Tuesday morning - and should pass it on in time for the cut-off for the fund manager to accept the subscription request at their next pricing point, on Tuesday. Depending what particular fund you bought in the end, the pricing point might be something like 9pm after the US markets have closed for 3 April. So even though you have seen (e.g.) Netflix fall 5% today, it might rise 6% tomorrow and you won't actually get a better price than you would have got if you'd put your request in first thing last Friday morning and caught Friday's pricing point.

    2) I had planned to buy ACC units but on reviewing my order I have bought INC units through carelessness. Is this a big problem (other than either incurring dealing fees or having small amounts of cash uninvested whilst I wait for my next planned deal)? Would the solution be to sell them and rebuy ACC and incur 3 dealing charges (plus whatever way the markets move), and if so is it worth it?
    I wouldn't worry about it too much as a (for example) 6% annual return you're missing out on, on a (for example) 1% interim dividend which is uninvested for half a year until you are ready to redploy the money by paying another dealing fee anyway at the time you make your next annual contribution... is only half of 6% of 1%, which is 0.03%. You really won't notice that within your returns. Having that 'cash float' arriving in your account periodically helps out with ongoing platform fees though it's more than you need for that purpose of course.

    So it's not a major problem. But in a month or two when you get the LISA bonus you will be looking to invest that extra 1000 and pay a 1.50 fee to do it. If around the same time you also sell your existing INC fund (with a 1.50 cost for doing so) you can just redeploy all the money in buying an ACC fund and fix the problem for good - leaving as little 'spare' cash as you like - with your 1.50 purchase dealing fee you were going to spend anyway on using up the bonus money.

    In that way you would only be spending an 'extra' 1.50 over and above what you were going to spend on dealing fees this year, rather than another 3 (for a 1.50 sale and another 1.50 purchase just to fix this Inc vs Acc problem).
    • Cathcoo
    • By Cathcoo 17th Apr 18, 3:35 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Cathcoo
    I've finally managed to sit down and read all this, and have found it REALLY useful. Especially the ignoring stuff . Thanks guys. Vanguard does perhaps look my best bet. I'll give them a closer look.
    • Cathcoo
    • By Cathcoo 19th Apr 18, 4:48 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Cathcoo
    Did I say Vanguard? I meant Cavendish.
    • Westie983
    • By Westie983 19th Apr 18, 6:22 PM
    • 4,560 Posts
    • 15,082 Thanks
    Westie983
    I've finally managed to sit down and read all this, and have found it REALLY useful. Especially the ignoring stuff . Thanks guys. Vanguard does perhaps look my best bet. I'll give them a closer look.
    Originally posted by Cathcoo
    Great im glad you have got something out of your thread and question, and you got useful advice.

    I will close this thread to new replies, if only to stop the ignore "issue" continuing.

    Thanks for your question

    Westie983
    Save 12k in 2018 #10 Total (25000)+14800/12000 = 123.33%
    Sealed Pot Challenge ~ 11 #97 Total (410) + 40/500 = 8.00% ( x 11)
    Xmas 2018 1 a Day #2 Total 62.59/365 = 17.14%
    Virtual Sealed Pot #1 Total 1200/1000 = 120.00%
    2 Savers Club 2018 #16 Total (1500)+-470/2000 = 51.50%

    Total 18132.59/15865 = 114.29%

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