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  • FIRST POST
    • bonnielass18
    • By bonnielass18 23rd Mar 18, 9:06 PM
    • 34Posts
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    bonnielass18
    Settlements - how much should I ask for?
    • #1
    • 23rd Mar 18, 9:06 PM
    Settlements - how much should I ask for? 23rd Mar 18 at 9:06 PM
    FYI - I have already engaged a solicitor however I would like to have some reassurance around what I should be asking for based on other people’s knowledge or experience.

    I was a reasonably senior employee in an organisation until the past few weeks. I had experienced treatment that I felt was discriminatory and I raised a grievance with my employer. I was subsequently dismissed.

    I have since enlisted the help of a solicitor but I wanted to get some advice on what I should be asking? I’m in a new role now however I have had to take a significant paydrop. The solicitor has suggested we should be asking for around 3-4 months salary. But can anyone give me an indication of what they’ve settled or have seen settled for in other cases?

    Any help is really appreciated
Page 4
    • bonnielass18
    • By bonnielass18 26th Mar 18, 1:55 PM
    • 34 Posts
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    bonnielass18
    They don!!!8217;t have a thing. I requested their disciplinary procedure as soon as I received the warning and they directed me to the gov.uk website
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 26th Mar 18, 2:25 PM
    • 5,316 Posts
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    Gavin83
    P.s. the solicitor is working on a no win no fee right now however if it does go to tribunal, that might change. He is expecting that they will settle however
    Originally posted by bonnielass18
    That's good for you as it gives you a back out plan. The moment the solicitor is no longer willing to work on a no win, no fee basis is the moment to drop the case. That suggests that he is no longer confident you'll win. It does sound somewhat like he's relying on a settlement more than the strength of the case. He's suggested 4 months salary, I suspect they'll come back with 2 months and his advice will be to accept. It depends on the employer, it'll probably be cheaper for them to settle but they might defend out of principle.

    However do I actually have a strong case or is he taking a chance that they will settle to avoid the hassle.
    Originally posted by bonnielass18
    Honestly, based on what you've said I don't think you have a strong case at all, even less so on a sex discrimination basis. I can see what's happened here. You've messaged the guy from work, his wife has found the texts and to get himself out of trouble he's claimed you were harassing him and raised a complaint at work. He's probably gone for a similar story with his 'work mates' and they've backed him up.

    However I wouldn't really say the employers have done anything wrong. They received a claim of sexual harassment, which they obviously have to investigate. Even so, it doesn't appear they were planning on sacking you for this. However, you raised a complaint, you were probably on your last legs anyway and they no longer considered you worth the hassle. They should have probably gone through a formal process but this isn't tribunal worthy, best case scenario you'd be entitled to your notice.

    Lesson to be learnt, it's not a good idea to text a member of the opposite sex at work, especially when you haven't been there that long.

    This is of course assuming you've been 100% honest here and there isn't more to the story.
    • bonnielass18
    • By bonnielass18 26th Mar 18, 2:30 PM
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    bonnielass18
    But they didn!!!8217;t even investigate it, the had a conversation with the guys and decided there and then that it was fact and then disciplined me. First I heard there was any kind of issue was when I received the warning in email.

    And then I raised my grievance and they didn!!!8217;t investigate that. and then dismissed me for something else... and then changed their minds for it to be something else again
    • bonnielass18
    • By bonnielass18 26th Mar 18, 2:31 PM
    • 34 Posts
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    bonnielass18
    Sorry!! I keep forgetting about the issue with the iPhone and it just looks like I am really angry with all of the exclamation marks
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 26th Mar 18, 2:56 PM
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    Gavin83
    But they didn!!!8217;t even investigate it, the had a conversation with the guys and decided there and then that it was fact and then disciplined me. First I heard there was any kind of issue was when I received the warning in email.

    And then I raised my grievance and they didn!!!8217;t investigate that. and then dismissed me for something else... and then changed their minds for it to be something else again
    Originally posted by bonnielass18
    But none of this appears to be sex discrimination, just poorly implemented practices. I'm assuming it was the solicitor who advised to enter it as sex discrimination because quite simply if you hadn't you'd have no right to a tribunal.

    Look, this is my opinion. In reality my opinion doesn't really matter, I won't be deciding the case. My strong advice (and I'd suggest taking this on board) is if you can't come to a settlement and the solicitor will no longer continue the case on a no win, no fee basis that's the time to drop it. Once your solicitor is effectively admitting you don't have a strong case that's a bad sign. Until that point feel free to carry on, but I'd certainly consider any offer your ex employer puts forward, just don't expect it to be the figure you ask for.
    • bonnielass18
    • By bonnielass18 26th Mar 18, 3:02 PM
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    bonnielass18
    No it was me that said sex discrimination as that is how it felt. I!!!8217;m the only female and what the male employees say is fact and no one even was interested in my version of events. That felt to me that I was being discriminated against because I was a woman.

    And when they ignored my grievance when they had taken a males complaint so seriously also makes me feel like it!!!8217;s discrimination.

    And the fact they have then dismissed me makes me feel that I was dismissed because I raised the grievance which I put down to victimisation.
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 26th Mar 18, 4:46 PM
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    Ozzuk
    Change 'male' to 'colleague' and to me your case just disappears. I just don't see how you could prove its because you are female. It could well be, sadly does happen (as we've seen on another thread), but it could also be because they took a colleagues side over yours, nothing to do with sex.
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 26th Mar 18, 5:34 PM
    • 1,338 Posts
    • 2,687 Thanks
    nicechap
    That sounds uncannily like another thread on here, but from the other side and further along in the process.

    Workplace romance seems to cause an awful lot of trouble.
    Originally posted by seashore22
    Uncanningly so.

    There was a recent thread on marriage board from someone divorcing and trying to get a bigger settlement, caused no end of argument, and then, lo and behold the spouse joined MSE and started a different thread from their side of the argument, cue more and more arguments.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 26th Mar 18, 5:38 PM
    • 1,338 Posts
    • 2,687 Thanks
    nicechap
    The grievance I raised was for sex discrimination. The termination happened a week later and they said it was poor performance. And then they later changed their mind and said it was redundancy. It is all documented.
    Originally posted by bonnielass18
    What was your performance like?

    Were their previous meetings/ bonuses/ problems/ minutes/ emails they could point to in any Tribunal hearing.

    (you might like to aquaint yourself with legal definition of redundancy and re-check the dismissal letter).
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 26th Mar 18, 6:12 PM
    • 15,975 Posts
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    pinkshoes
    No it was me that said sex discrimination as that is how it felt. I!!!8217;m the only female and what the male employees say is fact and no one even was interested in my version of events. That felt to me that I was being discriminated against because I was a woman.

    And when they ignored my grievance when they had taken a males complaint so seriously also makes me feel like it!!!8217;s discrimination.

    And the fact they have then dismissed me makes me feel that I was dismissed because I raised the grievance which I put down to victimisation.
    Originally posted by bonnielass18
    So your case of sex discrimination is based on the belief that if a man on the team had said what you said, it would have been ignored?

    Do you have evidence of men on the team having said similar things, a complaint being made, and no action taken?

    I fear you will struggle to prove that the action was taken purely because you were female.

    I spent 10 years in engineering and often the only female, so know what it is like to get treated differently all the time.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • bonnielass18
    • By bonnielass18 26th Mar 18, 6:23 PM
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    bonnielass18
    Yes that’s correct. They never would have complained if it was a male colleague. And sadly I have very limited evidence of it. It was always when we were in our group and they will all club together because they’re friends and obviously will be protecting their jobs. However we did have a customer that witnessed a naked photo of a male colleague being circulated around the team. But I haven’t spoken to her about that - I’ve decided to wait for the solicitor before I do anything on that.

    In my case, HR took the word of 3 male colleagues and issued a warning. I complained about their process and that I was being treated differently and they ignored my complaint. So right now I feel as if I’d have to have balls to have gotten anywhere.

    Then they dismissed me for poor fit and when I asked what that meant, one of the reasons was performance when I had outperformed many members of the team and also this issue. When I challenged it, they then said that I was being made redundant because of a restructure and sent me a redundancy letter.

    But I don’t know if that’s enough.

    My other claim is victimisation - because I believe that I was sacked because I kicked back, and raised the sex discrimination complaint.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 26th Mar 18, 6:52 PM
    • 556 Posts
    • 224 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    Bob from accounts said he emailed Eric the MD and he email Trevor from HR and he phoned Gary at the Warehouse and they all agreed your getting Nothing other than a Good Bye card.
    If my appalling spelling offends you that much...dont read my posts.
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 27th Mar 18, 8:21 AM
    • 1,436 Posts
    • 2,075 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    Again, they took the word of '3 colleagues'. I'd probably keep pushing, make case strong as possible to see if you get an offer (note your solicitor fees in this), but if you don't then I don't think based on what you've said you'll get anywhere at tribunal, and I'd be amazed if your solicitor carried on the no win no fee attitude. Good luck though.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 27th Mar 18, 10:46 AM
    • 5,316 Posts
    • 8,730 Thanks
    Gavin83
    Ozzuk raises a good point. If you accept an offer then from the solicitors POV that'll be considered a 'win' and therefore his fees will need to come out of your award. This could, especially if the offer is small basically take away everything your ex employer give you.

    The other thing to watch out for is if your ex employer give you an offer and you refuse, whether the solicitor will also consider that a 'win'. They might also cap their total fee to the award given. You need to check your contract really.
    • bonnielass18
    • By bonnielass18 28th Mar 18, 6:49 AM
    • 34 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    bonnielass18
    Thank you for the advice, that is worth knowing regarding a win.

    I will see how it goes and I will also have a look at the contract to see how it works if it’s a low offer.
    • bonnielass18
    • By bonnielass18 28th Mar 18, 6:50 AM
    • 34 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    bonnielass18
    Even if it is a small win, it is more than I have now.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 28th Mar 18, 10:29 AM
    • 5,316 Posts
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    Gavin83
    Please do come back and update us, I'm interested how this one plays out.
    • aife
    • By aife 4th Apr 18, 9:16 PM
    • 195 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    aife
    It's not you, it's a known issue with so-called smart punctuation on Apple devices. Suggest you turn it off and punctuate for yourself.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    Glad you posted that . I keep seeing this , thought it was some kind of hipster insult or something
    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 4th Apr 18, 10:00 PM
    • 17,343 Posts
    • 38,526 Thanks
    Masomnia
    No it was me that said sex discrimination as that is how it felt. I!!!8217;m the only female and what the male employees say is fact and no one even was interested in my version of events. That felt to me that I was being discriminated against because I was a woman.

    And when they ignored my grievance when they had taken a males complaint so seriously also makes me feel like it!!!8217;s discrimination.

    And the fact they have then dismissed me makes me feel that I was dismissed because I raised the grievance which I put down to victimisation.
    Originally posted by bonnielass18
    I always say that 9 times out of 10 there's no problem dismissing people in the first two years, but there is that odd occasion where the employer has to be careful and make sure they're above board. I think you're one of the odd cases and based on what you've said it sounds like the employer has handled it badly.

    So I'm a bit more bullish on your prospects than others on here. Even if it's not a huge amount of cash I think you've got a good shout of getting a settlement. At tribunal who knows, but if you can show that prima facie there was discrimination, then the burden will fall on them to show a fair reason for your dismissal, and it doesn't sound like they've done a good job of that so far.

    Do let us know how you get on. Good luck.
    “I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse
    • bonnielass18
    • By bonnielass18 9th Apr 18, 4:58 PM
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    bonnielass18
    Sorry it has taken me so long to come back with an update. There has been no update to report until the last few days!

    I had went ahead and registered my claim with the employment tribunal to ensure I was within the 3 month time limit. We received a letter from the tribunal that my ex employer failed to respond with their defence so they have entered a default judgement in my favour !!!55357;!!!56898;

    I!!!8217;m delighted however I also am aware that the employer could apply to have this set aside. I am not sure why they did not respond, unless they did not receive the court papers.

    My solicitor has calculated a new settlement figure and has went to them as the remedy hearing is in a few weeks time so there really is not much time.
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