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  • FIRST POST
    • owais12
    • By owais12 23rd Mar 18, 3:32 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 1Thanks
    owais12
    Taken to court by UK Parking Control Ltd
    • #1
    • 23rd Mar 18, 3:32 PM
    Taken to court by UK Parking Control Ltd 23rd Mar 18 at 3:32 PM
    Hi,

    I've been taken to court for the sum of 770 by UK Parking Control Ltd (Through SCS Law) for 4 parking fines, all from May 2016.

    The driver parked outside a car park on some private land by a university library and not directly in the car park.

    I'm very confused and lost on how to approach the whole situation and would much appreciate any help I can get.

    Is the first thing I should do the 'Acknowledgment of Service' so I get extra time to reply?


    Kind regards,
    Owais


    -----

    My issue date was 12/3/2018 and my date of service is 21/3/2018
    Last edited by owais12; 23-03-2018 at 4:19 PM.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 23rd Mar 18, 4:17 PM
    • 36,564 Posts
    • 82,825 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 23rd Mar 18, 4:17 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd Mar 18, 4:17 PM
    They are not fines.

    Do you mean you have been to court (past tense) or you are going to court (future tense)?

    If the later, you need to read the guide to court by bargepole that you will find in the NEWBIES thread.
    Yes you acknowledge and state you are going to defend, but you do not put anything in the defence box at this stage.

    How did you get to this point? Have you ignored PCNs and other correspondence until now, or have you moved house?
    You can't just start with a court claim, a lot of things have to have happened first.
    Did you at any point reveal the driver's identity before now? If not, then you need to edit your post above to remove that information.
    Onky ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • owais12
    • By owais12 23rd Mar 18, 4:26 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    owais12
    • #3
    • 23rd Mar 18, 4:26 PM
    • #3
    • 23rd Mar 18, 4:26 PM
    They are not fines.

    Do you mean you have been to court (past tense) or you are going to court (future tense)?

    If the later, you need to read the guide to court by bargepole that you will find in the NEWBIES thread.
    Yes you acknowledge and state you are going to defend, but you do not put anything in the defence box at this stage.

    How did you get to this point? Have you ignored PCNs and other correspondence until now, or have you moved house?
    You can't just start with a court claim, a lot of things have to have happened first.
    Did you at any point reveal the driver's identity before now? If not, then you need to edit your post above to remove that information.
    Onky ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Future tense - I've received particulars and a claim form from Northampton county court. My issue date was 12/3/2018 and my date of service is 21/3/2018.

    I've been ignoring the letters that UKPC/SCS or anyone else associated to them have been sending me to date. Also, I've never pointed to the identity of the driver.

    Thanks - I'll have a read through the Bargepole thread and revert back.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 23rd Mar 18, 4:30 PM
    • 36,564 Posts
    • 82,825 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 23rd Mar 18, 4:30 PM
    • #4
    • 23rd Mar 18, 4:30 PM
    The advice to ignore has not been given on here since the law changed in 2012.
    You had, or were given old and out of date bad advice.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • owais12
    • By owais12 23rd Mar 18, 5:06 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    owais12
    • #5
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:06 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:06 PM
    The advice to ignore has not been given on here since the law changed in 2012.
    You had, or were given old and out of date bad advice.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Yeah - I was previously told just to ignore non-council parking fines :/

    I've done the AoS now through MCOL. The next stage is to prepare a defence? It seems really daunting and I'm not sure how I go about how to building one.

    One thing I've noticed is under contraventions in the particulars, for all 4 fines, it states "... the Defendant's vehicle was parked at Curzon Street Car Park Curzon Street Birmingham. The driver of the vehicle breached the terms of agreement by stopping the vehicle in a prohibited area".

    The driver did not actually park in the car park, rather on a privately owned (I don't know who this would belong to) side road leading to student accommodation. The car was next to the car park, but by no means "parking at Curzon Street Car Park". The car was parked where the white arrow points to - whilst the signage is where the red arrow points. The car park is further up the road, as seen in the second picture.

    Picture 1: ibb.co/cjrCN7
    Picture 2: ibb.co/hWwkaS
    Last edited by owais12; 23-03-2018 at 5:29 PM.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 23rd Mar 18, 5:10 PM
    • 9,053 Posts
    • 8,738 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:10 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:10 PM
    UKPC are fraudsters, read this

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • owais12
    • By owais12 23rd Mar 18, 5:25 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    owais12
    • #7
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:25 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:25 PM
    Should I email/post a letter requesting picture proof of my car in the car park?
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 23rd Mar 18, 5:35 PM
    • 2,799 Posts
    • 4,199 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #8
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:35 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:35 PM
    Sorry but that picture looks to me like you parked on private land covered by some pretty useless signage.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 23rd Mar 18, 5:44 PM
    • 2,553 Posts
    • 1,401 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #9
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:44 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Mar 18, 5:44 PM
    Here are your pictures
    https://ibb.co/cjrCN7
    https://ibb.co/hWwkaS
    • owais12
    • By owais12 23rd Mar 18, 6:34 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    owais12
    Sorry but that picture looks to me like you parked on private land covered by some pretty useless signage.
    Originally posted by fisherjim

    I know - When building a case, do you think that should be one of my main defences?
    Along with the fact that they say my car was got the fine in a car park ... when in reality that is not part of the car park?

    Also, I'll be contacting SCS/UKPC in regards to providing me more in-depth particulars on Monday. At the moment, all I have is 4 small paragraphs saying the driver was parked in a car park.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Mar 18, 7:51 PM
    • 56,189 Posts
    • 69,855 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Should I email/post a letter requesting picture proof of my car in the car park?
    Originally posted by owais12
    No!

    You must now defend the claim; do not do anything else. You eye needs to be on the ball.

    Why not simply copy and adapt another UKPC SCS claim defence (search the forum for those keywords and change the default to 'show posts'). Read the examples people have already used in the past year, 99% of defences win here when people stick around and follow all advice.

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • owais12
    • By owais12 13th Apr 18, 4:03 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    owais12
    Hi,

    Sorry about the delayed update - I was very unwell the last few weeks.
    I have till Wednesday to finally fill in a defence.

    Having researched, my main two defences seem to be:
    - UKPC have badly readable signs?
    - Forbidding signs fail to constitute a contract and I can only be chased by the landowner for trespassing?
    ----> for this one, how do I overcome their potential argument of: "if it was considered that the Claimant had a legitimate interest in preventing obstruction on the narrow access roads of this private business park when heavy goods vehicles, buses and other vehicles needed to proceed unimpeded, by imposing a charge to be paid in such circumstances." .... Can I highlight the fact it isn't a narrow road and any lane sized vehicle can fit?


    Can't think of what else is relevant going over past examples.
    Last edited by owais12; 13-04-2018 at 4:07 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Apr 18, 4:15 PM
    • 36,564 Posts
    • 82,825 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Do you have the NTKs? Were they POFA 2012 complaint.
    Have you challenged landowner authority, and no standing to bring charges in your own name?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Apr 18, 4:16 PM
    • 6,647 Posts
    • 5,849 Thanks
    KeithP
    My issue date was 12/3/2018 and my date of service is 21/3/2018.
    What does that mean?

    Are you saying the date of issue on the claim form is 12 March 2018?

    If so, then having done the AoS in time your Defence must be filed by 4pm on Monday 16 April 2018.

    You probably should aim to be emailing it on Sunday at the latest.

    Post your draft up here when you're ready.
    .
    • owais12
    • By owais12 13th Apr 18, 8:04 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    owais12
    Do you have the NTKs? Were they POFA 2012 complaint.
    Have you challenged landowner authority, and no standing to bring charges in your own name?
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    I do have all the NTKs. They say under 'Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012' I am liable to pay the unpaid parking charge.

    I have not challenged landowner authority or no standing to bring charges in my name - it is my assumption that UKPC do not own the land. It's likely owned by the university accommodation that the road leads to.
    Last edited by owais12; 13-04-2018 at 8:18 PM.
    • owais12
    • By owais12 13th Apr 18, 8:05 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    owais12
    What does that mean?

    Are you saying the date of issue on the claim form is 12 March 2018?

    If so, then having done the AoS in time your Defence must be filed by 4pm on Monday 16 April 2018.

    You probably should aim to be emailing it on Sunday at the latest.

    Post your draft up here when you're ready.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    The MCOL platform says the following:
    Date of service of 21/03/2018 notified on 22/03/2018 at 11:38:52
    Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 23/03/2018 at 16:34:32
    Your acknowledgment of service was received on 26/03/2018 at 01:05:13

    It's 28 days from date of service I assume? which brings it to the coming Wednesday
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Apr 18, 8:28 PM
    • 56,189 Posts
    • 69,855 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would not rely on that date. Your date of service was very late and not provable.

    Why not just read all the other UKPC University road defences on here, and adapt one?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Apr 18, 8:29 PM
    • 6,647 Posts
    • 5,849 Thanks
    KeithP
    What is the date of issue on your claim form?
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Apr 18, 8:32 PM
    • 56,189 Posts
    • 69,855 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    12th like everyone else, loads were issued then, and MUST be defended by Monday morning, IMHO.

    My issue date was 12/3/2018
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • owais12
    • By owais12 13th Apr 18, 9:05 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    owais12
    I would not rely on that date. Your date of service was very late and not provable.

    Why not just read all the other UKPC University road defences on here, and adapt one?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I will try my best to completed with the defence by end of Sunday.

    the 21/03 date is on the MCOL platform so I would hope that is what counts. It is those every three days later as I got the particulars 3 days late.

    ---

    I will look into the UKPC Uni claims. I tried earlier and couldn't find any that were successful in court ... only one recent one where the OP left mid-way and didn't sign on again.

    Would bad signage and forbidding signs constituting no contract be a good starting point?
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