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  • FIRST POST
    • Upsidedowner
    • By Upsidedowner 23rd Mar 18, 12:28 PM
    • 23Posts
    • 21Thanks
    Upsidedowner
    Name the driver - reset the clock?
    • #1
    • 23rd Mar 18, 12:28 PM
    Name the driver - reset the clock? 23rd Mar 18 at 12:28 PM
    Hi - quick question please if anyone has time to answer,

    Its been seven months since I was served with a NTK letter for a PCN. Obviously I know Ive missed the opportunity to appeal/pay the 'reduced' £60 charge.

    If at this stage I name the driver - is the clock reset for the driver. IE: Do they then get the oportunity to appeal and pay the reduced fine or has that ship well and truely sailed as I had the opportunity to name them months ago.
    Last edited by Upsidedowner; 27-09-2018 at 11:45 AM.
Page 2
    • Upsidedowner
    • By Upsidedowner 27th Mar 18, 2:50 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Upsidedowner
    Sorry to be a pest.

    I'm being super picky with the Notice to Keeper.
    It was Issued (Posted) 16/06/2017

    It says I have within 28 days of the Issue date ie: no later than 14/07/2017 to pay £100.
    Or within 14 days of the Issue date ie: no later than 30/06/2017 to pay £60.

    It later states after the 28 day period (beginning with the day after the issue date on the notice) ....

    Then also states that the notice will have been deemed to have been received by me on the second working day after the issue date.


    Im confused! Have the specified dates have been worked out correctly? or if they are misleading me (maybe only by a day) but still I understand while they may be largely compliant, a small mistake could be costly for them when relying on POFA.

    Can anyone help please?
    Specifically when do I start counting the 28 days from according to POFA.

    I see POFA states 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to the keeper is given.
    So what does POFA consider 'given'? Issued? Posted or Received?
    Last edited by Upsidedowner; 27-03-2018 at 3:05 PM.
    • Upsidedowner
    • By Upsidedowner 27th Mar 18, 4:09 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Upsidedowner
    Apologies - I've just re-read and found this:

    A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so ;given; for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose ; means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

    Which I think means their dates are out by a day.
    Actually 3/4 days as they issued on a Friday - so I exclude the Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th.

    Hope that's the case - I think Ive answered my own question.
    Last edited by Upsidedowner; 27-03-2018 at 4:26 PM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 27th Mar 18, 5:15 PM
    • 3,921 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Yes, they are of course out by a day
    They have to specify date given, not one day after date issued. This means they have not complied with POFA and cannot hold the keeper liable

    This of course does not mean the driver isnt liable, but the keeper cannot be.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Mar 18, 10:59 PM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,531 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They are more than a day out, the real timeline runs from the day after a NTK is served, which is later than you are calculating. Could be anything between 2 days and a week out.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Upsidedowner
    • By Upsidedowner 28th Mar 18, 9:54 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Upsidedowner
    Yup! Thank you - Think I have my head round it now. Just putting together a deliciously stroppy response to break the good news to them.
    • Upsidedowner
    • By Upsidedowner 22nd Apr 18, 8:43 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Upsidedowner
    A claim has now been issued by Excel. I've acknowledged service and got my extra time to prepare the defence. I'm working my way through that.

    I have a question - on the same site where this ticket was issued. A marked police car has been given a PCN (attending a call on the site) he is appealing the ticket and tweeted about it. ' #AnprIsntAlwaysGreat..' .................. It made local press. Is their any mileage in bringing it to the attention of the judge? (defence or witness statement if more appropriate?) Or complete waste of time/irrelevant ?

    (Our local MP has mentioned her backing for the new regulations being discussed in parliament too)

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/15804805.Police_car_slapped_with___100_parking_fin e___officer_was_trying_to_find_suspected_self_harm er/
    Last edited by Upsidedowner; 22-04-2018 at 9:21 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 22nd Apr 18, 8:57 PM
    • 20,238 Posts
    • 31,929 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    A marked police car has been given a PCN (attending a call on the site) he is appealing the ticket and tweeted about it. '
    And you just know that the IAS s going to turn down any appeal. Hopefully another nail in their coffin - set in the context of Sir Greg Knight!
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Upsidedowner
    • By Upsidedowner 22nd Apr 18, 9:23 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Upsidedowner
    I just love the address 'Durham Constabulary' ..... and the fact no one thought not to send it out ..... (head meets desk).
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 22nd Apr 18, 9:54 PM
    • 9,300 Posts
    • 12,223 Thanks
    beamerguy
    A claim has now been issued by Excel. I've acknowledged service and got my extra time to prepare the defence. I'm working my way through that.

    I have a question - on the same site where this ticket was issued. A marked police car has been given a PCN (attending a call on the site) he is appealing the ticket and tweeted about it. ' #AnprIsntAlwaysGreat..' .................. It made local press. Is their any mileage in bringing it to the attention of the judge? (defence or witness statement if more appropriate?) Or complete waste of time/irrelevant ?

    (Our local MP has mentioned her backing for the new regulations being discussed in parliament too)

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/15804805.Police_car_slapped_with___100_parking_fin e___officer_was_trying_to_find_suspected_self_harm er/
    Originally posted by Upsidedowner
    UNREAL ...... EXCEL really are a bunch of uncouth
    w**k*rs ... mentality of a complete moron
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Rumpole93
    • By Rumpole93 22nd Apr 18, 10:57 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Rumpole93
    Pay
    I'm getting that way. Feel like I'm being hounded!!!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Apr 18, 11:31 PM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,531 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    A claim has now been issued by Excel. I've acknowledged service and got my extra time to prepare the defence. I'm working my way through that.

    I have a question - on the same site where this ticket was issued. A marked police car has been given a PCN (attending a call on the site) he is appealing the ticket and tweeted about it. ' #AnprIsntAlwaysGreat..' .................. It made local press. Is their any mileage in bringing it to the attention of the judge? (defence or witness statement if more appropriate?) Or complete waste of time/irrelevant ?

    (Our local MP has mentioned her backing for the new regulations being discussed in parliament too)


    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/15804805.Police_car_slapped_with___100_parking_fin e___officer_was_trying_to_find_suspected_self_harm er/
    Originally posted by Upsidedowner
    Yes mention it in your WS and put the newspaper report in as evidence along with everything else.

    There are recent ANPR defences on here that deal with the ICO issue as well, the fact that PPCs do not comply with the ICO code of practice on ANPR use, and fail to tell victims about their right to subject access and fail to carry out Impact Assessments (making the operation illegal):

    http://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/excessive-use-of-anpr-cameras-for-enforcement

    The ICO said (ironically when banning a Police Constabulary from using ANPR):

    ''The use of ANPR cameras and other forms of surveillance must be proportionate to the problem it is trying to address.''

    Here is what they should do:

    https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1542/cctv-code-of-practice.pdf

    Anyway, you can find a pre-written defence point covering that, using keywords ICO ANPR defence or similar.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 22nd Apr 18, 11:39 PM
    • 3,921 Posts
    • 4,720 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Was everything signed by excel? Nothing from vcs? Just asking in case they ballsed up another one.
    • Upsidedowner
    • By Upsidedowner 23rd Apr 18, 1:19 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Upsidedowner
    Perfect, Thankyou Coupon-mad, I had spotted the ANPR defence in the Newbie thread and I am all over that!

    Nosferatu - Its all under Excel Litigation - Either Jake Burgess A.CILEx, (Associate Legal Executive no less) or a Yasmeen Couser (Paralegal) (Although she doesnt seem to like signing her letters there's just a big blank space!)
    Last edited by Upsidedowner; 24-04-2018 at 9:03 PM.
    • grumpyawldwifey
    • By grumpyawldwifey 24th Apr 18, 8:24 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    grumpyawldwifey
    Upsidedowner, I believe we may be contesting Excel from the same car park. I will PM you
    • Upsidedowner
    • By Upsidedowner 24th Apr 18, 9:11 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Upsidedowner
    Yes we are. I'm on my mobile and it wont let me get to the PM for some reason.

    I've read your thread. I managed to track down the agent acting for the landowner if you fancy a last minute pop at them cancelling it for you? The agent wasnt much cop for me but he might take more notice of you due to the discrimination aspect in your case. Good luck!

    The landowner is 'Threadneedle Property Investments' Cannon Place, 78 Cannon Street, London, EC4N 6AG.
    BUT
    The agent acting for them is Rodney Witton (Savills based in Birmingham)
    Tel 0121 200 4509
    Rod.Witton@savills.com

    Savills
    55 Colmore Row
    Birmingham
    West Midlands
    B3 2AA
    Last edited by Upsidedowner; 24-04-2018 at 9:23 PM.
    • grumpyawldwifey
    • By grumpyawldwifey 29th Apr 18, 10:07 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    grumpyawldwifey

    I have a question - on the same site where this ticket was issued. A marked police car has been given a PCN (attending a call on the site) he is appealing the ticket and tweeted about it. ' #AnprIsntAlwaysGreat..' .................. It made local press. Is their any mileage in bringing it to the attention of the judge? (defence or witness statement if more appropriate?) Or complete waste of time/irrelevant ?

    (Our local MP has mentioned her backing for the new regulations being discussed in parliament too)

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/15804805.Police_car_slapped_with___100_parking_fin e___officer_was_trying_to_find_suspected_self_harm er/
    Originally posted by Upsidedowner
    I've contacted the SPC in question to find out how he got on and if his appeal was successful.
    He replied: "Eventually and after requiring further evidence and a statement from a superintendent to confirm I wasn’t lying! But yes, last month I was NFA’d thankfully"
    • grumpyawldwifey
    • By grumpyawldwifey 30th Apr 18, 7:23 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    grumpyawldwifey
    I've also contacted the land agent who tells me that Excel lease the car park, therefore, are money grabbing all for themselves!
    • Upsidedowner
    • By Upsidedowner 6th Jul 18, 11:59 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Upsidedowner
    Hi all,

    My defence was sent to CCBC nearly two months ago now and since then i've followed the process as set out here, I received a letter (general form of judgement or order) today from my local court (rather than the central office) saying:

    'Unless the Claimant files and serves fully pleaded particulars of claim the claim shall stand dismissed'

    It also goes on to say I have permission to serve an amended defence should I wish to ??? .


    The particulars were served ages ago - so while I thought I understood the process this has me a little confused!?

    The only thing I can think (other than a mistake by the court?), is that what Excel sent wasn't clear enough and they need to provide something with more basis?

    Bearing that in mind - is that why I'm being given the option to serve an amended defence? In response to a possible change in their particulars?

    Can anyone help clarify for me.
    Last edited by Upsidedowner; 06-07-2018 at 12:38 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Jul 18, 12:55 PM
    • 20,238 Posts
    • 31,929 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    The only thing I can think (other than a mistake by the court?), is that what Excel sent wasn't clear enough and they need to provide something with more basis?
    While we are often being asked to second guess the purpose/meaning of what people have received, it looks like the Judge needs more information in the PoC.

    Bearing that in mind - is that why I'm being given the option to serve an amended defence? In response to a possible change in their particulars?
    Seems to be the case. We've seen it before in a number of cases (not necessarily Excel).

    Which court? Skipton Court is pretty severe on PPCs and their PoCs.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jul 18, 2:03 PM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,531 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Bearing that in mind - is that why I'm being given the option to serve an amended defence? In response to a possible change in their particulars?
    Yes, the Judge doesn't like the rubbish POC they filed.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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