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  • FIRST POST
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 22nd Mar 18, 12:51 AM
    • 29Posts
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    Fridge_Emptier
    CCJ set aside
    • #1
    • 22nd Mar 18, 12:51 AM
    CCJ set aside 22nd Mar 18 at 12:51 AM
    Hello everyone.

    I've just discovered I have an active CCJ registered a couple of years ago at County Court Business Centre.
    I spoke with the claimant and now know the parking circumstances it relates to.
    I was at a retail outlet 5 years ago (!), knew I would overstay the maximum 'free' parking period and told the store's staff.
    Assured all would be fine (handed over VRN for staff to enter into their don't-fine-this-driver database) I did indeed overstay the free period.
    Some weeks later I received a PCN for this.
    I then contacted the retail outlet who were apologetic and said it would be sorted - 'leave it to me'.
    That was the last of it.

    I moved house several months afterwards and redirected post for 6 months, meaning I was able to receive any further comms from the claimant for about 15 months after the PCN arrived; but received nothing.
    PCN was well and truly forgotten by me.

    So, two points:
    - I took steps to resolve the issue immediately upon receiving the PCN (contacted retailer).
    - I never received any further correspondence

    A third point should be mentioned, that the vehicle was not owned by me or registered to me - I was borrowing it. Keeper had the PCN amended with my details.

    What are your thoughts, please?
    Was intending on a set aside based on incorrect address used.
    I've read this post: (sorry, as a new user I cannot post URLs) 4816822#2 and feel my circumstances are covered in the listed posts.
    I just wanted to see if I've missed anything as the regulars on here are very knowledgeable and I'd be silly not to seek your advice.

    Many thanks in advance
    :-)
Page 2
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Apr 18, 9:14 AM
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    nosferatu1001
    It doesnt matter too much as CEL wont turn up.

    Show us your draft order. It MUST include provision that CEL pays your set aside fee if they discontinue, which they WILL DO.

    Usually 21 days is the max you can leave it before making the applicaiton, so DO NOT delay. If asked just apologise and state you did this as soon as possible however you had a prior holiday booked with family which could not be caneclled at such short notice.
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 17th Apr 18, 9:53 AM
    • 29 Posts
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    Fridge_Emptier
    Thank you, nosferatu1001

    It doesnt matter too much as CEL wont turn up.
    Shame, I like a fair fight.

    Show us your draft order. It MUST include provision that CEL pays your set aside fee if they discontinue, which they WILL DO.
    Good idea. I have had 4 or 5 versions of this and chopped and changed it after reading different posts:

    Upon reading the Defendant's application dated <date>.

    It is ordered that:

    1. The judgment dated <date> be set aside.

    2. The Defendant shall file and serve its Defence by 4pm following 14 days after the date on which the judgement is set aside.

    3. The Claimant do pay the Defendant's costs of this application to the sum of 255.

    4. The Claimant has permission to file and serve a reply if so required.

    5. The Claimant do pay the Defendant's costs for the Set Aside Hearing of <a sum between 300 and 400>.


    Usually 21 days is the max you can leave it before making the applicaiton, so DO NOT delay. If asked just apologise and state you did this as soon as possible however you had a prior holiday booked with family which could not be caneclled at such short notice.
    Thanks. I'm ready to send off now.
    Do I send a copy to the Court for each party concerned? Or just one copy to the Court and then separately send a copy of the N244 and Draft Order to the Claimant?

    Thanks again in advance for such a great amount of help this forum has provided.
    Last edited by Fridge_Emptier; 17-04-2018 at 9:54 AM. Reason: added salutation to previous reply poster
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 18, 10:14 AM
    • 37,323 Posts
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    Quentin
    At any time after securing a judgement a claimant can take enforcement proceedings against the defendant all at the defendant's extra cost (eg bailiff/attachment of earnings)


    To stop this happening you need to ask that any enforcement proceedings be put on hold pending the outcome of the set aside application
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 18, 10:19 AM
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    Quentin
    Do I send a copy to the Court for each party concerned? Or just one copy to the Court and then separately send a copy of the N244 and Draft Order to the Claimant?
    Originally posted by Fridge_Emptier
    Yes send 2 copies to the court, they will send one to the Claimant
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 11:29 AM
    • 61,745 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    At any time after securing a judgement a claimant can take enforcement proceedings against the defendant all at the defendant's extra cost (eg bailiff/attachment of earnings)


    To stop this happening you need to ask that any enforcement proceedings be put on hold pending the outcome of the set aside application
    Originally posted by Quentin
    And add another one to the Draft Order:

    - In the event that costs are initially reserved at set aside stage, should the Claimant discontinue or fail to pay the main hearing fee to continue their claim within the timeline set by the Court, the Claimant will be required to pay the Defendant's costs, including the set aside fee, and the Court will consider an application for further costs on the indemnity basis, given the fact that a claim against a registered keeper, without using the provisions of Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 and with no identification of the liable party (driver), has (and always had at the time of the claim) no realistic prospects of success.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 17th Apr 18, 11:41 AM
    • 29 Posts
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    Fridge_Emptier
    Quentin, thanks for this.

    At any time after securing a judgement a claimant can take enforcement proceedings against the defendant all at the defendant's extra cost (eg bailiff/attachment of earnings)


    To stop this happening you need to ask that any enforcement proceedings be put on hold pending the outcome of the set aside application
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Where/how do I do this? Put it in the draft order I send the Court?
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 17th Apr 18, 11:45 AM
    • 29 Posts
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    Fridge_Emptier
    Thanks again Coupon-mad.

    And add another one to the Draft Order:

    - In the event that costs are initially reserved at set aside stage, should the Claimant discontinue or fail to pay the main hearing fee to continue their claim within the timeline set by the Court, the Claimant will be required to pay the Defendant's costs, including the set aside fee, and the Court will consider an application for further costs on the indemnity basis, given the fact that a claim against a registered keeper, without using the provisions of Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 and with no identification of the liable party (driver), has (and always had at the time of the claim) no realistic prospects of success.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    ^ Does this apply to me as I am not disputing I was the driver?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 11:47 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    as I am not disputing I was the driver?
    Why the heck of hecks not? It's CEL who can't hold keepers liable!

    ONLY take that route if you have already blabbed.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 17th Apr 18, 12:38 PM
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    Fridge_Emptier
    ONLY take that route if you have already blabbed.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I am an honest person and will take on the chin what I deserve but in this case, I did not deserve any of it. I'm not the registered keeper and pretending it wasn't me pushes the problem onto the person who loaned me the car. Not my kind of tactics.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 18, 12:44 PM
    • 37,323 Posts
    • 21,512 Thanks
    Quentin
    Quentin, thanks for this.



    Where/how do I do this? Put it in the draft order I send the Court?
    Originally posted by Fridge_Emptier
    Yes .


    You do need to acquaint yourself with the whole set aside process - plenty of advice here and of course via google (also bearing in mind your approach to this not being dealt with promptly!)
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 18, 12:45 PM
    • 37,323 Posts
    • 21,512 Thanks
    Quentin
    I am an honest person and will take on the chin what I deserve but in this case, I did not deserve any of it. I'm not the registered keeper and pretending it wasn't me pushes the problem onto the person who loaned me the car. Not my kind of tactics.
    Originally posted by Fridge_Emptier
    Nevertheless the keeper cannot be held liable by CEL
    Last edited by Quentin; 17-04-2018 at 2:04 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Apr 18, 1:13 PM
    • 19,490 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    Nevertheless the keeper cannot be held liable by APCOA!
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Nor by CEL.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Apr 18, 1:22 PM
    • 3,429 Posts
    • 4,270 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Try this or similar instead. It is more succinct than C-M (You should recognise it C-M, its from Southpaw82 on pepipoo)

    IN THE COUNTY COURT AT TRURO

    MIL COLLECTIONS LIMITED (Claimant)

    And

    [YOU] (Defendant)


    District Judge [name]

    UPON reading the Defendant's application dated [date] and the annexed witness statement of [name] dated [date]

    IT IS ORDERED that:

    1. The default judgment dated [date] be set aside.

    2. Costs to be reserved.

    3. Unless the Claimant serves a copy of the Claim Form on the Defendant by 4pm on [date] paragraph 2 shall cease to have effect and the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at 255 and the claim shall be struck out.

    4. If the Claimant serves the claim form as directed in paragraph 3 the Defendant shall file and serve a defence by 4pm on [date].
    Obviously change MIL over.

    And OP -no it doesnt throw it on anyone else because you have the claim against you. Having lost once they wont try again.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 18, 2:02 PM
    • 37,323 Posts
    • 21,512 Thanks
    Quentin
    Try this or similar instead. It is more succinct than C-M (You should recognise it C-M, its from Southpaw82 on pep.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Doesn't include the enforcement issue - see #23
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 18th Apr 18, 10:12 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    One last stupid question (as none of the forms or guidance are explicit on this) ... wait for it ...
    Which court do I send the N244 to? To the central Northampton court where it was registered or to my local county court?
    I'll hide under a rock after that, sorry!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 18th Apr 18, 10:30 AM
    • 37,323 Posts
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    Quentin
    Initially to the court which issued the ccj

    Remember time is of the essence!

    Now another day gone!!
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 23rd Apr 18, 9:05 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    Back to District Judge
    Developments:
    Sent my N244 in and was received by CCBC.
    They returned it all back saying the case is with the District Judge, so cannot process a set aside. Very confusing!
    Spoke with them and it appears upon speaking to them a few weeks ago and expressing my shock and surprise at it all they have referred it to a DJ because "no particulars of claim had been served". I am now to wait to hear what next.

    Seen this before?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 23rd Apr 18, 9:22 AM
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    nosferatu1001
    No, not seen this before. Normally they want money to do anything.

    Did they say when something would happen?
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 23rd Apr 18, 9:38 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    No, not seen this before. Normally they want money to do anything.

    Did they say when something would happen?
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    No, the lady said, "with any luck it will get struck off due to no particulars having been served" and "don't do anything until you hear from the judge".
    She does not know which judge or any more than that.
    I asked if the thieving claimant had kicked off something with them in the intervening time but she said not and that it must have been as a result of me phoning the central court.

    I find that hard to believe.
    I think the claimant has made its next move, whatever that is.
    [here's some details I did not mention on here before ...]
    They offered to set aside uncontested when I spoke with them in the beginning but I said I did not believe I was liable for anything and that it did not seem right for me to pay anything - they still wanted me to pay a parking fine I should never have had and their initial legal costs involved in giving me the CCJ and then for me to pay the next legal costs to set aside. They said the offer stood for 14 days.
    My suspicion is they have made their move since that offer .... but what?
    And, why would the reason on the court file be due to no particulars having been served?
    It went to the DJ just over a week after the 14 days 'offer' expired.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 23rd Apr 18, 9:45 AM
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    nosferatu1001
    No idea.

    I would get this in writing, if possible.
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