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    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 20th Mar 18, 10:17 AM
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    50Twuncle
    NI Credits problem
    • #1
    • 20th Mar 18, 10:17 AM
    NI Credits problem 20th Mar 18 at 10:17 AM
    I am missing out on 8 years NI contributions and have discovered that I may be entitled to claim them from DWP....
    I am 54 years old

    I am receiving a small Ill Health Pension from former employer.

    I am disabled and working 10 hours a week (so not entitled to Tax Credits) - yet due to my payrate, I am earning under the NI rate !!

    I have savings - so not entitled to ESA (in any case - have no recent NI credits for contribution based)

    I see https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-credits/eligibility says "You're not on Employment and Support Allowance but you satisfy the conditions for it"

    But selecting conditions - does not tell me what the specific conditions are.....
    Anyone offer me any help ??

    Thanks
Page 5
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 12th Aug 18, 3:44 PM
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    50Twuncle
    Pension and Carer's Allowance are not "earnings". As you are trying to make a credits only claim I think your wife's income is irrelevant anyway. Indeed a 'new style' JSA claim can only be made as an individual.
    Originally posted by calcotti
    But am I claiming JSA or UC ?
    I am in a UC area apparently
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 12th Aug 18, 4:00 PM
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    calcotti
    If you are in a full service UC area you can only apply for UC or 'new style' JSA (assuming you do not have an illness which limits your ability to work in which case you apply for 'new style' ESA).

    My sense of this thread is that there is confusion about whether a credits only claim is JSA or UC. The guidance seems to be to speak to the UC helpline and/or the JobCentre but I can see this has already been discussed extensively in this thread.

    If claiming UC pension and Carers Allowance would be treated as "unearned income" rather than "earnings". Whereas earnings are only deducted from a maximum UC award at 63% unearned income is deducted at 100%.

    As far as I can see The Social Security (Credits) Regulations 1975 have no provision for a credits only UC claim. There is provision for a credits only 'new style' JSA claim but if you are in remunerative work you do not meet the qualifying conditions referred to in the JobSeekers Act 1995.

    If you are successful establishing a credits only claim the DWP will almost certainly expect you to demonstrate you are looking for work to increase your hours - unless their is a health reason which limits this (in which case you should be applying for ESA rather than JSA).
    Last edited by calcotti; 12-08-2018 at 4:39 PM.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 12th Aug 18, 5:09 PM
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    xylophone
    If you are successful establishing a credits only claim the DWP will almost certainly expect you to demonstrate you are looking for work to increase your hours - unless their is a health reason which limits this (in which case you should be applying for ESA rather than JSA).
    The OP says


    Well - I am 54 years old - suffer from multiple (major) issues - and have been medically retired from 2 jobs (livng on ill health pensions + DLA) in the last 9 years - so I hope that DWP are happy that this is a valid reason ?
    I have tried, myself to find full time/more work - but failed !!


    The OP could work full time but only in jobs which take full account of his multiple health problems?
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 12th Aug 18, 5:22 PM
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    calcotti
    The OP could work full time but only in jobs which take full account of his multiple health problems?
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Thanks. This thread is so long it!!!8217;s become easy to lose sight of the OP!!!8217;s situation!

    In this situation I think OPs best chance is to try a credits only !!!8216;new style!!!8217; ESA claim as the work he does appear to be within permitted works rules and he has health issues that limit his ability to work. Doubt it will be easy though.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 12th Aug 18, 6:07 PM
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    50Twuncle
    That is what I thought too
    ESA would sound better for me - on permitted work even with no payments
    Especially if it doesn't involve my wife...
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 12th Aug 18, 6:39 PM
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    Alice Holt
    Thanks. This thread is so long it!!!8217;s become easy to lose sight of the OP!!!8217;s situation!

    In this situation I think OPs best chance is to try a credits only !!!8216;new style!!!8217; ESA claim as the work he does appear to be within permitted works rules and he has health issues that limit his ability to work. Doubt it will be easy though.
    Originally posted by calcotti
    The difficultly with this is that the OP does not have the requisite NI contributions to make a new-style ESA claim (see his opening comments which he has repeated at intervals throughout the thread).
    I don't think UC will support a credits only Claim (and the OP's claim will be rejected because he has savings over 16k).

    The FoI link xylo supplied at post 7 which I reprised at post 60 and have quoted at post 75 would seem to be the best way forward for the OP.
    The Q posed fits the OP's situation, namely " Please could you provide the regulations and/or guidance that describe the process for making a "credits only" claim for Universal Credit, when someone in a Full service UC area doesn't meet the NI contributions conditions for new style ESA or JSA, but also has too much income/savings for Universal Credit."

    Unfortunately this thread seems to have gone round in circles - hence the confusion. It has now been running for 5 months.

    IMO, the OP should either try the route detailed by the DWP in the F of I link with the help of a sensible and astute family member, or purchase post 2016 NIC's before April 2019 (when the costs increases).
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 12-08-2018 at 6:45 PM.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 12th Aug 18, 7:53 PM
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    calcotti
    My thinking process went like this.
    Given what the OP has said about his health it appears that he could have limited capability for work. If he does then SOCIAL SECURITY (CREDITS) REGULATIONS 1975 give him the right to NI credits (regulation 8B).

    The question then is how to get the DWP to assess him. ESA seemed to make sense because claimed as an individual rather than a couple (as required for UC). However contrary to my earlier post you are probably right and he is not going to get past the starting post on new style ESA to get a WCA started.

    Fundamentally he is not trying to claim a benefit just trying to get recognition of his condition in order to get credits. That is why none of the normal claims processes seem to work. Contacting helpline or JobCentre does seem the right thing to do.

    Ludicrous that the DWP have no clear (and publicly announced) process for this - one might have hoped that the FOI request would have highlighted that they needed to give it some thought!

    I did not mean to draw myself into this because I can see it has gone round in circles over many months. It would be good to know what works though.
    Last edited by calcotti; 12-08-2018 at 7:55 PM.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 12th Aug 18, 9:26 PM
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    Alice Holt
    Ludicrous that the DWP have no clear (and publicly announced) process for this - one might have hoped that the FOI request would have highlighted that they needed to give it some thought!
    Originally posted by calcotti
    Totally agree.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 13th Aug 18, 8:18 AM
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    50Twuncle
    My thinking process went like this.
    Given what the OP has said about his health it appears that he could have limited capability for work. If he does then SOCIAL SECURITY (CREDITS) REGULATIONS 1975 give him the right to NI credits (regulation 8B).

    The question then is how to get the DWP to assess him. ESA seemed to make sense because claimed as an individual rather than a couple (as required for UC). However contrary to my earlier post you are probably right and he is not going to get past the starting post on new style ESA to get a WCA started.

    Fundamentally he is not trying to claim a benefit just trying to get recognition of his condition in order to get credits. That is why none of the normal claims processes seem to work. Contacting helpline or JobCentre does seem the right thing to do.

    Ludicrous that the DWP have no clear (and publicly announced) process for this - one might have hoped that the FOI request would have highlighted that they needed to give it some thought!

    I did not mean to draw myself into this because I can see it has gone round in circles over many months. It would be good to know what works though.
    Originally posted by calcotti
    Thank you - you have my problem down to a tee...
    I may just bring my MP in on it anyway.
    Does the fact that I am just after class 3 credits mean that (unlike class 1 credits) - I would not have to "sign on" weekly ?
    Last edited by 50Twuncle; 13-08-2018 at 9:32 AM.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 13th Aug 18, 9:39 AM
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    50Twuncle
    UPDATE FROM MY DEA !!
    Don't know, however, whether this will really work ?

    "In order to claim Universal Credit you can provide a fit note and this is to confirm that you can work, but only 10 hours per week, or whatever your GP considers, due to your health. This would mean that we can arrange a work capability assessment in time, so that you would no longer need to provide fit notes. Whilst providing fit notes or completing the work capability assessment and being found to have Limited Capability for work, you would be given class 3 credits which go towards your pension"
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 13th Aug 18, 9:53 AM
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    Alice Holt
    UPDATE FROM MY DEA !!
    Don't know, however, whether this will really work ?

    "In order to claim Universal Credit you can provide a fit note and this is to confirm that you can work, but only 10 hours per week, or whatever your GP considers, due to your health. This would mean that we can arrange a work capability assessment in time, so that you would no longer need to provide fit notes. Whilst providing fit notes or completing the work capability assessment and being found to have Limited Capability for work, you would be given class 3 credits which go towards your pension"
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    I thought you said your savings exceeded 16k, as UC is a means tested benefit I doubt this will work for you.

    Have you made a claim for UC.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 13th Aug 18, 9:54 AM
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    xylophone
    What is DEA?

    "In order to claim Universal Credit
    You still have to start the process by claiming?

    Perhaps you should see your doctor and get the "fit note" before beginning the claim?

    There seems to be no option other than completing a form of one kind or another and waiting for a response.

    You'll just have to "suck it and see" as it were - if you get nowhere then you can start an appeal process/contact your MP?
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 13th Aug 18, 10:52 AM
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    50Twuncle
    I thought you said your savings exceeded 16k, as UC is a means tested benefit I doubt this will work for you.

    Have you made a claim for UC.
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    No not yet - started the onine form though
    My DEA (disability employment adviser ) is aware of my savings
    Last edited by 50Twuncle; 13-08-2018 at 10:54 AM.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 13th Aug 18, 11:29 AM
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    50Twuncle
    What is DEA?



    You still have to start the process by claiming?

    Perhaps you should see your doctor and get the "fit note" before beginning the claim?

    There seems to be no option other than completing a form of one kind or another and waiting for a response.

    You'll just have to "suck it and see" as it were - if you get nowhere then you can start an appeal process/contact your MP?
    Originally posted by xylophone

    Will do - I have an appointment with my GP on Thursday !
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 15th Aug 18, 6:09 PM
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    50Twuncle
    Does the whole thing depend on my working ?
    Is if I took early/medical retirement in say 5 years - would my NI credits continue to be paid - based on my pensions and inability to work even the ten hours that I currently work ?
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 15th Aug 18, 7:32 PM
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    calcotti
    You do not get NI credits from pension income.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 17th Aug 18, 1:40 PM
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    50Twuncle
    You do not get NI credits from pension income.
    Originally posted by calcotti
    I asked DWP this very question and was told

    "National insurance contributions are awarded based on entitlement to apply for a benefit. If your situation changes, but you still meet the entitlement conditions then credits will continue to be awarded. "

    I then asked "Exactly what are the entitlement conditions"

    Reply "The conditionality rules for all the benefits are on the Gov.uk website. The award of credits has no separate conditionality."

    So - I am no wiser !!
    Why are DWP so secretive ?
    They exist to help claimants - but don't in most cases...
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 19th Aug 18, 4:08 PM
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    50Twuncle
    Meeting at DWP moved to next Wednesday
    Is it going to be possible to backdate my NI contributions ?
    I would appreciate it if someone could point me in the correct direction for rules before Wednesday ...
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 19th Aug 18, 4:14 PM
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    poppy12345
    NI credits can't be backdated.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 19th Aug 18, 4:32 PM
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    50Twuncle
    Ok thanks - prewarned is presumed !
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