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  • FIRST POST
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 19th Mar 18, 8:52 PM
    • 204Posts
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    tyroneshoelaces
    Faulty Kitchen - Where do I stand
    • #1
    • 19th Mar 18, 8:52 PM
    Faulty Kitchen - Where do I stand 19th Mar 18 at 8:52 PM
    I live in a new property that is 4.5 years old. We have lived in it since it was built and so, we selected all of the fittings and fixtures that came with it, including the kitchen.

    We opted for a high gloss kitchen where everything matches including the doors, carcases, plinths, infils etc etc.

    After two and a half years in 2016, a few of the cupboard doors began delaminating so I contacted the builder and they replaced the faulty doors, I put it down to the heat of the oven as they were located around that.

    Then in 2017 a few other door and drawer fronts were doing the same. This time I went to the kitchen supplier who is Paul Rosa Manhattan and told them I wanted a new kitchen. They refused and said that they had worked closely with the manufacturer and that they were using new adhesives, so they did a full door and drawer front replacement.

    Anyway, last month, a year on, a door has started to delaminate so I contacted the supplier again. They stated that they would only replace the door and that was that. I explained that I this was on a new door with a new adhesive and so, they offered to replace all the doors again but I refused this because I do not want further problems so they offered us an upgrade on the doors, drawer fronts, plinths infills and some of the sides of the carases that can be seen - however, the upgrade is not available in the colour we originally picked which means that there will still be the colour of our old kitchen visible in certain areas such as the trim around the edge of cupboards when you open doors.

    I told them that this was not good enough and that they have to put my kitchen right which means a complete replacement of everything so that it all matches, even those colour coded areas that are not immediately viewable.

    Anyhow, they have refused this and so, I want to know what rights I have?

    They are saying that have already offered a good will gesture of upgrading the doors but I see this as more them acknowledging they have no other option.

    AmI right to refuse their offer unless they replace absolutely everything so that it all matches like my kitchen currently does? A mismatching kitchen is not what we paid for plus, if we ever did sell the house it could be a sticking point.

    Does anyone have any advice. Do I have the right expect a full replacement of everything given that it has taken over two years for them to try and put it right?

    Who can I turn to?

    I just want some solid advice because the last email I sent, I also copied in their chief executive. I do not want the hassle of this for much longer, we already have a crazy three year old and a little one on the way in June so I could do with having this sorted quickly!

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 20th Mar 18, 8:52 AM
    • 10,435 Posts
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    JJ Egan
    • #2
    • 20th Mar 18, 8:52 AM
    • #2
    • 20th Mar 18, 8:52 AM
    Your contract is with the vendor and your rights under the law are against them .
    Thats the builder not the supplier of the doors .
    Suggest you contact your local CAB .
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 20th Mar 18, 9:01 AM
    • 204 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    tyroneshoelaces
    • #3
    • 20th Mar 18, 9:01 AM
    • #3
    • 20th Mar 18, 9:01 AM
    Your contract is with the vendor and your rights under the law are against them .
    Thats the builder not the supplier of the doors .
    Suggest you contact your local CAB .
    Originally posted by JJ Egan
    That is exactly what I thought. However, the first time it happened in 2016, the builder dealt with it. When the issue came around for the second time, the builder passed me on to the kitchen supplier. I feel as though I have been pulled from pillar to post and have no idea where I stand with regards to it all.

    Thanks for the reply, I will speak with CAB.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 20th Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    • 20,117 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #4
    • 20th Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    I'd say that having offered to provide direct replacements they have met what the law would require them to do. The upgrades offered goes even further, so they wouldn't need to replace every little item with an upgraded product. Unless you can be very persuasive I can't see you getting an entire new kitchen, so you'll need to decide whether full direct replacement or partial upgrade is the best option - if you go for the latter you could consider paying to upgrade the parts they won't provide free.
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 20th Mar 18, 12:15 PM
    • 204 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    tyroneshoelaces
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 18, 12:15 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 18, 12:15 PM
    My neighbour has had the exact same problem several times and according to him, they are coming out to replace carcasses as well to ensure that everything matches. At the end of the day, in my mind, the doors make up the overall appearance of a kitchen and if they do not match, then I do not see why I should be made to put up with that but I can totally see what you are saying.

    I suppose it is a bit like taking a brand new car back to the garage for warranty work on the door, only for them to say that they are sorry but they no longer do the door in the same colour so you have to have it in another colour if you get what I mean.

    They have had several attempts at putting it right and their offer of matching up the doors, drawers, infils and plinths is great but they only need to go that little bit further to make everything good.

    Take this pic of my cupboard:

    https://ibb.co/k2jJpc

    The blue line would indicate where the new colour would be because that is an exposed side of the carcass, yet the red line would be left in the old colour....I cannot see how they cannot be expected to put this right!!
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 20th Mar 18, 2:18 PM
    • 10,435 Posts
    • 4,390 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 18, 2:18 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 18, 2:18 PM
    >I put it down to the heat of the oven as they were located around that.>

    Thats damage not a fault if so .
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 20th Mar 18, 2:19 PM
    • 204 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    tyroneshoelaces
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 18, 2:19 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 18, 2:19 PM
    I turns out though, that it is not the heat from the oven because other cupboard doors located away from the oven were beginning to de-laminate.
    • maisie cat
    • By maisie cat 20th Mar 18, 2:26 PM
    • 393 Posts
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    maisie cat
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 18, 2:26 PM
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 18, 2:26 PM
    I would have said that Paula Rosa have gone beyond what I would have expected. A low end kitchen is not going to last that long. The plastic coated MDF door are particularly prone to delamination near heat & humidity
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 20th Mar 18, 2:34 PM
    • 9,958 Posts
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    shaun from Africa
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 18, 2:34 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 18, 2:34 PM
    >I put it down to the heat of the oven as they were located around that.>

    Thats damage not a fault if so .
    Originally posted by JJ Egan
    I know that this doesn't appear to be the case here but even if the laminate was peeling off the doors due to heat from the oven then this could possibly still class as a fault.

    As the oven and the adjacent units were both fitted by the housebuilder or their agents, it could well be argued that either the laminate on the units wasn't suitable for a location so close to the oven or that the oven itself is faulty and radiating too much heat to the surrounding cupboards.
    I realise that this would be hard to prove after owning the house for a few years but if the same problem occurred in other properties on the same estate then this could help.

    If I bought a new car and the paint on the bonnet started blistering due to the heat from the engine, this would indicate a fault and I don't see that a kitchen should be looked at any differently.
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 20th Mar 18, 2:35 PM
    • 204 Posts
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    tyroneshoelaces
    I would have said that Paula Rosa have gone beyond what I would have expected. A low end kitchen is not going to last that long. The plastic coated MDF door are particularly prone to delamination near heat & humidity
    Originally posted by maisie cat
    I don't think it matters whether it is a low-end kitchen or not really. It comes with a five year warranty and that means that they have to put things right when it fails. If their kitchen cannot stand humidity or heat then there is a clear design fault but when we first had this problem, the kitchen was only 2 years and 5 months old which is hardly old.

    We chose a kitchen that has a high gloss finish everywhere and if the problem of the doors impacts the rest of the kitchen then they should expected to put it all right in my opinion. Nobody in their right mind would be happy to have a a kitchen that consists of one colour in the main but then a touch of colour in other areas surely?

    If the whole look of something is impacted by one problem then why should it be acceptable to put up with it. If your externa; window in your home becomes faulty and you have white upvc, it is like saying that you should be happy if they fit a brown upvc window as a replacement when it would have an effect on the overall appearance of your home.

    The house cost us a lot of money as it is a 4-bed detached and I expect a kitchen to last longer than 2 years and 5 months before it develops problems. Even then I was willing for them to put it right but the problems arose again. Then when they tried again after working closely with the manufacturer to use new adhesives, their product failed yet again.

    I am not trying to create an argument or anything here but the kitchen is an integral part of our home. We do a lot of hosting, we have plans to sell in the future and I do not see why I should have to live with a kitchen that does not match.
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 20th Mar 18, 2:38 PM
    • 204 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    tyroneshoelaces
    I know that this doesn't appear to be the case here but even if the laminate was peeling off the doors due to heat from the oven then this could possibly still class as a fault.

    As the oven and the adjacent units were both fitted by the housebuilder or their agents, it could well be argued that either the laminate on the units wasn't suitable for a location so close to the oven or that the oven itself is faulty and radiating too much heat to the surrounding cupboards.
    I realise that this would be hard to prove after owning the house for a few years but if the same problem occurred in other properties on the same estate then this could help.

    If I bought a new car and the paint on the bonnet started blistering due to the heat from the engine, this would indicate a fault and I don't see that a kitchen should be looked at any differently.
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    You would think that a kitchen would be designed to withstand heat and they even put heat protectors in the oven of my neighbours to try and combat the problem but it failed.

    This is not cause by the heat of the oven, of that I am sure because almost all other cupboard doors and drawers failed last year!

    It is so frustrating!
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 20th Mar 18, 5:36 PM
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    • 4,390 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    <It comes with a five year warranty and that means that they have to put things right when it fails.>

    No it depends upon the terms of the warranty .

    Again a warranty is not your Consumer Rights .
    Personally i would be taking advice from the Legal Profession.This is just a users forum and opinions often differ dramatically well meaning or not .
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 20th Mar 18, 5:38 PM
    • 204 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    tyroneshoelaces
    I get what you are saying completely and I have given them a deadline of tomorrow to come up with a solution before I go down the route of legal advice.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 20th Mar 18, 5:52 PM
    • 4,670 Posts
    • 3,503 Thanks
    sheramber
    Have you seen similar complaints on Trustpilot?
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 20th Mar 18, 7:13 PM
    • 204 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    tyroneshoelaces
    Yes I have seen reviews. They are awful, if I am forced to take this further such as the small claims court, I will be using this because it proves that they are still selling kitchens that are not fit for purpose.
    • kgldsun
    • By kgldsun 30th Mar 18, 7:54 AM
    • 96 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    kgldsun
    It seems we have an mirror image of faults, even down to the price. I too am not getting very far either. I have submitted my first CAB legal template letter, to which the company ignored all legal requests and said off you go to your Solicitors.
    I even have the real quartz top at different heights.
    Trust pilot have reasonably good reviews, but this company was dissolved and reopened by the same guy.
    I am as frustrated as is possible and we paid in cash! !!!
    I am tempted to place photographs of my kitchen on social media, of which CAB claim is not illegal if it is the truth.
    What next I wonder?
    Last edited by kgldsun; 30-03-2018 at 7:55 AM. Reason: Spell error
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 30th Mar 18, 8:03 AM
    • 204 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    tyroneshoelaces
    They have been a very difficult company to deal with but I am getting somewhere now.

    They told me, that my doors were no longer available, so they offered me an upgrade which I accepted but that upgrade was not in the same colour but they did not want to offer me a change of everything so that it matched. I threatened them with the small claims court and then they came back and said that they would change everything but not the carcases but that they had also managed to source the same colour from a different supplier.

    As a good will gesture, they are also fitting an additional wall unit. Yesterday an engineer came round to measure everything up as he was across the road fitting a new kitchen for my neighbour which was to replace their faulty kitchen.

    So progress is being made, it is just a case of waiting for them to get back to me with a fitting date.
    • Jodo1310
    • By Jodo1310 12th Apr 18, 4:47 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jodo1310
    Hi all, just following this thread regarding delaminating kitchen doors. Our kitchen was installed in 2012 with high gloss doors. Practically all doors are peeling around sides and bottom, with a split down the front of the kitchen door. It doesn!!!8217;t seem to be just around heat areas either. Premier kitchens say they will not replace as there is a three year guarantee on doors, which we don!!!8217;t appear to have in paperwork, but the cabinets are on a 15 year warranty. They will however provide new doors at 10% Discount and install for free.
    Now I am quite weary of head on collisions regarding quality of items bought which are below standard....given that some of the post here have provided insight into what installers should /or have offered...is what they (our kitchen) have offered reasonable or not? This is our second new kitchen in 16 years...Our first kitchen, in another house, was never problematic!! Advice needed
    Last edited by Jodo1310; 12-04-2018 at 11:01 PM.
    • kgldsun
    • By kgldsun 19th Apr 18, 8:43 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    kgldsun
    Faulty kitchen.
    May I suggest you call your local trading Standards office. They will help and advise for free.
    It is a simple case of two letters, hopefully the company reply to the first, omitting the need for the second letter. If no success arises from the letters, it is then claims courts arise. Once again there is help available to guide you.
    At the moment I am failing, but that is the company I am dealing with. Not to say yours will be the same.
    Good luck.
    • tyroneshoelaces
    • By tyroneshoelaces 20th Apr 18, 8:16 AM
    • 204 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    tyroneshoelaces
    All I can say to people going through this is to persevere. Paula Rosa have offered so many things and then decided that what they have offered is not available and that they cannot source it.


    Anyway, since I last posted, they have found a supplier for everything and are coming out on the 21st May to fit everything, including the new wall unit that they are fitting as a good will gesture. Along with this, as my wife is expecting our second child in June, I kept telling them that we had to solve this quickly, so they are also sending 100 worth of mothercare vouchers in the post!


    Roll on the 21st May when they come to fit it but I still have reservations about that being the end of it all. My neighbour is waiting for them to come out and finish his kitchen for the third time. They started on the 29th March and didn't finish it, then they returned on the 3rd April and didn't finish it and now they are returning on the 9th May to complete the work. Incredulous service really.
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