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  • FIRST POST
    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 17th Mar 18, 11:17 PM
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    kgirl123
    Gladstones court claim received - help please
    • #1
    • 17th Mar 18, 11:17 PM
    Gladstones court claim received - help please 17th Mar 18 at 11:17 PM
    Hello

    I'm a newbie to the forum, and would like to ask for your expert advice on my case please.
    I have read the Newbie thread and multiple posts here with similar cases, all very helpful and insightful, and it's a relief to read how many have been won! I have completed AOS a couple days ago, the issue date is 6 March, so I believe I have until 6 April to submit defence.

    The PCN is for parking without a permit. Back in September my car was parked in a visitor bay by a friends house, but resident did not have a visitor permit to use as the visitor bays are now allocated to the flats near her house, with no visitor bays for her and the other houses to accommodate guests. As it was Saturday evening the driver was surprised to find a PCN on the windscreen, but having received these before, driver ignored as always. Kepper received a notice reminder dated 1 month and 2 days later, ignored, photographed for record and binned. Received letter before claim 6 weeks later, also ignored and binned as thought it was just another scare letter, but did photograph for record.

    Not sure if it helps my case, but PCM had only taken control of the car park 2 weeks before this so the situation was very fresh to residents, and beforehand all visitors were fine to use the bays. The signs were in place directly above the visitor space, as usual in small print, but they were visible. Resident was aware of the changes, but there was nowhere else nearby to park.

    I will start to draft a defence tomorrow, but wanted to ask if it's worth sending an email to request further evidence from parking management? The original notice reminder only had photos of the car reg and a far away shot, so no signs shown. The Court Claim came with POC filled in the box, unfortunately stupidly disposed of the envelope before reading all the forum threads, but it arrived on 8 March so 2 days after issue. Presumably this means keeper missed the chance to write to CEL and court re backdating?

    Any help will be much appreciated! Thank you all for your time and support, hopefully with your help I can win this!
    Last edited by kgirl123; 18-03-2018 at 7:54 AM.
Page 2
    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 6th Apr 18, 3:39 PM
    • 30 Posts
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    kgirl123
    Print
    Sign
    Scan to PDF
    Email as an attachment
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Thank you! Have followed your instructions and sent across as an attachment with signature to the claim responses email address

    The Managing AGent is there on YOUR behalf. They can only sign contracts for YOUR benefit. You require them to send a copy of the contract through within 7 days else you will...
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    I'm referring to the managing agent who the resident normally deals with regarding anything related to the property they own. Resident surprisingly doesn't have a copy of their original contract, and so have advised the defendant to request a copy from the managing agent (i.e. the middle person between resident and land owner), with no luck
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Apr 18, 3:40 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    OK so get them to send a SAR to the MA, specifically asking for the contract/agreement itself, and anything sent to residents about the permit/parking regime.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 8th Apr 18, 8:16 AM
    • 3,276 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    The Managing AGent is there on YOUR behalf. They can only sign contracts for YOUR benefit. You require them to send a copy of the contract through within 7 days else you will...
    I'm not so sure about this one. I may be wrong but what if

    1. The leaseholder (as tenant) only has a contract with the Head Leaseholder

    2. Within the lease there are a bunch of promises or covenants on how people behave in a property with multiple leaseholders both between themselves and with the Head Leaseholder

    3. What if, to make the Head Leaseholders life easier, he hired the Managing Agents to manage these overlapping promises (or contracts you can say). That would mean the MA worked for the Head Leaseholder to fulfil the his obligations under the lease

    4. That would mean the monies paid by each leaseholder to the MA would not be consideration under contract to the MA but costs recovery by the MA as determined by the lease and the the various Landlord and Tenant Acts.

    I wonder if that is an alternative way of looking at this issue.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 9th Apr 18, 3:56 PM
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    kgirl123
    IamEmanresu if I understood your points correctly, that sounds right. The MA is acting on behalf of the land owner. The MA has copies of all contracts, but as defendant is not the property owner they are not being very responsive when a copy has been requested. Resident themselves haven't been very helpful in this unfortunately...

    I have received an email from Gladstones with the usual 'no need for oral hearing' blurb, and DQ attached, which I have seen on other posts. I also received a separate email from the same person, dated 20mins earlier, stating 'we are yet to receive a copy of your defence. We kindly ask for a copy of this in your convenience' - do I need to send them a copy?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Apr 18, 4:02 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    I would email them a copy in the interests of open dealing and fairness from your side, but I would put in the covering email that it doesn't bode well for their robo-claim in this case if they are so disorganised that they can't locate, or have lost, the defence that the CCBC made available to them (otherwise how would they have known it was DQ time?).

    I would also take the opportunity to send a clear message in the same email, that their stupid well-known template suggesting the claim is 'straightforward and should be heard on the papers' has not fooled you for one minute, and their client has no cause of action against you and should discontinue before they waste costs on yet another meritless claim.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Castle
    • By Castle 9th Apr 18, 4:02 PM
    • 1,900 Posts
    • 2,576 Thanks
    Castle
    I have received an email from Gladstones with the usual 'no need for oral hearing' blurb, and DQ attached, which I have seen on other posts. I also received a separate email from the same person, dated 20mins earlier, stating 'we are yet to receive a copy of your defence. We kindly ask for a copy of this in your convenience' - do I need to send them a copy?
    Originally posted by kgirl123
    No... the court will send them a copy.
    • JEFFreyjbaker
    • By JEFFreyjbaker 12th Apr 18, 2:20 AM
    • 1 Posts
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    JEFFreyjbaker
    Missed 3 PCNS FROM PCM and now Iíve got a county court letter
    Hey guys thanks for the help but I recieved 3 parking fine last year April and was told to ignore them as its private and now Iíve but got a county court letter and Iím a bit terrified but itís £609 and I canít afford it is thereís anything I could do to stop it please.

    Thank you for your help guys much appreciated
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Apr 18, 8:31 AM
    • 19,422 Posts
    • 30,687 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Hey guys thanks for the help but I recieved 3 parking fine last year April and was told to ignore them as its private and now Iíve but got a county court letter and Iím a bit terrified but itís £609 and I canít afford it is thereís anything I could do to stop it please.

    Thank you for your help guys much appreciated
    Originally posted by JEFFreyjbaker
    Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 which walks you right through the court process.

    Then please start a new thread of your own as gate crashing someone else's is not allowed by the forum and as your case is now at the business end of things could lead to potentially very expensive confusion.

    itís £609 and I canít afford it is thereís anything I could do to stop it please.
    Whether you can afford it or not will not help you. Lots of research and hard work will be the main way of trying to stop this.

    In your new thread please give us details of dates when these PCNs were incurred, which parking company, dates of letters received and other information so we have a better understanding of your case, and how you might be able to win this.

    Who told you to ignore the PCNs?
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 13th Apr 18, 11:47 AM
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    • 12 Thanks
    kgirl123
    I would email them a copy in the interests of open dealing and fairness from your side, but I would put in the covering email that it doesn't bode well for their robo-claim in this case if they are so disorganised that they can't locate, or have lost, the defence that the CCBC made available to them (otherwise how would they have known it was DQ time?).

    I would also take the opportunity to send a clear message in the same email, that their stupid well-known template suggesting the claim is 'straightforward and should be heard on the papers' has not fooled you for one minute, and their client has no cause of action against you and should discontinue before they waste costs on yet another meritless claim.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Followed your instruction, and drafted an email stating the above, also outlining that I will not hesitate to reclaim all my costs if this does proceed to court and is judged in my favour. Haven't heard anything back and it's been a few days so doubt I'll get any response. Thanks for the help again!
    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 5th May 18, 11:19 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    kgirl123
    Quick update - DQ filled out and submitted via email to both CCBC and claimant (ahead of deadline on 8th May)

    I believe the next part of the process can take weeks or even months in some cases, so now I wait...
    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 14th Jun 18, 11:01 AM
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    kgirl123
    I have received the attached letter in the post today, can't find an example like that on the forum so please can I ask for help with this?
    Am I right in thinking I should make an application to have it set aside? If so, how do I do this?


    Last edited by kgirl123; 14-06-2018 at 11:05 AM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 14th Jun 18, 11:38 AM
    • 3,429 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Erm, no? Why are you looking fo a set aside?
    THis just tells you when your hearing is, and at 6) tells you the deadline by which WS and your bundle msust be with the court AND CLAIMANT - 14 days as normal.

    Have you THOROUGHLY read post 2 of the newbies thread?
    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 14th Jun 18, 5:22 PM
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    • 12 Thanks
    kgirl123
    Thanks for your help, yes I have read the post

    There isn't a court date allocated on the documents so I guess they will come later as per point 2, I'll wait to receive this and prepare my documentation
    Last edited by kgirl123; 15-06-2018 at 7:51 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jun 18, 1:11 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    All looks normal. 1.5 hours isn't too shabby, you will get decent time to be heard!

    Have a look at how Henry Hippo got on at Slough, a lovely day was had:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=114450

    The win is discussed around post #275 so set aside an hour or two to read it, to get the gist of what one Judge at Slough was like about PPCs.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 15th Jun 18, 7:43 AM
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    • 12 Thanks
    kgirl123
    Thanks Coupon-Mad that's really helpful, I'll give it a thorough read over the weekend!
    Last edited by kgirl123; 15-06-2018 at 7:51 AM.
    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 6th Sep 18, 9:31 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    kgirl123
    I had to go abroad rather last minute and returned today, having received a Witness Statement bundle from Gladstones, along with their defence, photos, and agreements etc

    I need to submit my WS tomorrow, I will do my best to get it printed and nicely filed with a contents page and everything labelled and numbered as suggested in other posts - and hand deliver to the court. I assume I email it to Gladstones for reference?

    Please could you kindly check my WS below and suggest any comments:

    In the County Court at Slough, The Law Courts, Windsor Road, Slough, SL1 2HE

    Claim No. XXXX

    Between

    PARKING AND PROPERTY MANAGEMENT LIMITED (Claimant)

    and

    XXXXX (Defendant)


    WITNESS STATEMENT



    I, XXXX, of XXXX, will say as follows:

    I am the Defendant in this matter, I am unrepresented, with no experience of Court procedures. If I do not set out documents in the way that the Claimant may do, I trust the Court will excuse my inexperience.
    In this Witness statement, the facts and matters stated are true and within my own knowledge, except where indicated otherwise.

    Before I describe what happened on the day, I would like to claim that the essence of my defence to this claim is that:
    The signage used at Hayling Close, SL1 5DE Slough was misleading
    The signage gave insufficient information to distinguish that the regulations apply to visitors parking, as not all spaces at the address require permits

    After arriving at Hayling Close to visit one of the residents, the driver had parked my car in the visitors bay. It was around 8.00pm at night, so it was getting dark outside and the driver did not notice the small signs which were posted up high above eye-level. They had not been there when the driver visited just over 2 weeks before. The driver was in the residence for approximately 1 hour, and returning to the car they realised there was a parking charge notice attached to the window. The driver looked around and found the signs with small print, almost illegible to read, but it did not state which spaces the regulation applied to. The signs were posted mostly around the parking spaces allocated to the flats, with nothing directly above any of the 3 visitors parking spaces, other than a yellow sign stating ‘visitors parking’.

    The driver checked with the resident they were visiting, who confirmed they had not been given a permit for their property, 3 Hayling Close, which is located in the same location, and as such there was no requirement for them to display one. This created confusion. It appeared as though the parking regulations were put in place for the residents of the flats adjacent to the houses, but there was nothing to suggest that it also applied to the visitors parking.

    The reminder letter I received approximately 4 weeks afterwards referred to 1-12 Hayling Close, where in fact 1-6 Hayling Close do not require permits and as such are exempt from the regulations. This further reassured me that the company was using false claims to scare me into paying.

    The claimant has sent threatening and misleading demands which stated that further debt recovery action and costs would be taken to recover what is owed by passing the debt to a recovery agent. These letters suggested to me that a County Court Judgment would apply if matters were taken to court and that this could affect my ability to obtain credit, pressuring me into paying something I believe is unjust.

    There was no requirement upon me to respond to what appeared to be junk mail, impersonating a parking ticket yet with no basis in law.

    After receiving the Claim Form, I spent many hours researching this case and the laws surrounding it, and I have found I am not the only one this has happened to, which shows the firm is neglecting their duty of care. It is apparent from court records reported in the public domain that this Claimant has been obtaining payments from keepers under false pretences - using the court as a cheap form of debt collection from the wrong 'registered keeper' parties - and has obtained default CCJs in the hundreds, despite never complying with the POFA 2012.

    The Court is invited to dismiss the claim and to award my costs of dealing with this claim and attendance at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.

    I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
    Last edited by kgirl123; 07-09-2018 at 10:35 AM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 6th Sep 18, 10:15 PM
    • 9,249 Posts
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    KeithP
    Are you not going to submit any evidence?

    Your WS doesn't refer to any evidence.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Sep 18, 10:17 PM
    • 61,584 Posts
    • 74,483 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    That would be a terrible mistake. Surely your defence mentioned signs and cases?

    The NEWBIES thread even lists typical evidence to think about adducing.

    Is your actual WS numbered, every paragraph (just didn't transfer here properly?).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 7th Sep 18, 5:14 AM
    • 3,276 Posts
    • 5,503 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Many we see the contract that PCM have and which should be in the bundle you were sent?

    There is usually something useful there. The rest will be a template which we've seen before.

    Check that the signs they have included are actually the ones they have installed though the signs may be secondary.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • kgirl123
    • By kgirl123 7th Sep 18, 8:27 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    kgirl123
    Sorry I drafted this last night after a day of travelling, working on it now to add the other cases as evidence

    I also have photos of signs and still trying to get a copy of the property contract, I did email the managing agent in March with no luck

    Here is the contract they included in their bundle:
    https://ibb.co/jXYUje

    An image they use in their ‘evidence’ shows a car parked outside of a resident bay, not sure if that’s worth mentioning at all, it's not a visitor bay
    https://ibb.co/kOijHz

    I have noticed the witness statement refers to reading court instead of slough, so adding that as a point

    Is it better to word the WS as 'the defendant' same as my defence? And add Henry Greenslade and Schedule 4 of POFA?

    Another question..
    Is it worth preparing a counter claim? I was dismissed from my job suddenly in June, and I do believe having spent so much time researching and preparing my defence contributed greatly to this as I was very distracted and couldn't focus without thinking about the court case. I have a letter of dismissal but they wouldn't provide reasons in writing so not sure if I can include that
    Last edited by kgirl123; 07-09-2018 at 8:47 AM.
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