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  • FIRST POST
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 17th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    • 36Posts
    • 17Thanks
    Djdamo
    BW Legal for VCS county court claim
    • #1
    • 17th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    BW Legal for VCS county court claim 17th Mar 18 at 10:47 AM
    Hi,


    Back in 2016 the keeper received a NTK through the post dated 06/08/2016 for a PCN that Vehicle Control Services claim was issued to the car registration for breaching the terms and conditions of a privately owned car park on 05/06/2016. The reason for the breach was parked in a restricted area of the car park. The keeper nor the driver have never parked in the car park.

    The keeper sent an appeal letter using a template obtained from these forums via email to VCS on 17/06/2016.


    VCS replied via a letter dated 20/09/2016 acknowledging the appeal and stated they were evaluating the correspondence and were unable to give a decision at the present time however they expected to have their reply by 10/12/2016. They never answered any of the points raised in the appeal nor provided any evidence of the keepers car in their car park.

    The keeper then received another letter from VCS dated 08/02/2017 where they said they were unable to process the appeal as it was not submitted in time.


    There was no further correspondence by either party until the keeper received a claim form from a county court from BW Legal dated 13/03/2018 for 247.88 giving 14 days to respond.

    The keeper was not the driver on that day and the car was not parked in their car at all on that day.


    The keeper intends to defend this claim, what is the best method to do so?




    Thanks
    Last edited by Djdamo; 17-03-2018 at 2:23 PM.
Page 4
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 12th Apr 18, 8:15 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    Apologies, I must have missed that direction, where exactly does it say that so I can check in case there's any other steps I've missed.
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 19th Apr 18, 6:59 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    Recieved a letter today from BW Legal regarding their intention to continue with the claim and have notified the court also.

    Now I wait for the directions questionnaire. At what point do I get to see their evidence or lack of for that matter?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Apr 18, 7:34 PM
    • 59,444 Posts
    • 72,604 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    With their WS.

    The NEWBIES thread post #2 tells you 'what happens when' with two links.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 19th Apr 18, 8:10 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    I have read it but found some aspects slightly confusing. I'll read through it again tonight to refresh my memory.
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 25th Apr 18, 12:53 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    The directions questionnaire came today and I've read the post regarding how to fill it in from the newbies post. I have a few questions however.

    1. The keeper wishes to deal with the case via the papers only. I've informed them of the advise on here however I couldn't get them to change their mind. I'm unable to see where this can be requested on the form received.

    2. I'm assuming dates available would not be required for dealing with this on paper?

    3. Am I correct in thinking there will be 3 witnesses, the keeper, the driver and the person whom the driver was meeting?

    4. As I'm 100% sure there will be no evidence of the vehicle parked in their car park as stated in their NTK how would they try to prove their claim? There has been no information or proof received after the appeal letter was sent or the SAR which was acknowledged on 28th March. Is there much chance that the keeper can successfully defend this via papers only with a lack of their evidence? (Appreciate this would just be opinion)

    5. Ive so far been unable to locate documentation or information for a post made by Coupon-mad regarding the TMA 2004 and where a TRO is in place the road can only be enforced by proper penalty notices issued via the council.

    6. I spoke with a representative at the highway department who said that the Welsh Government, who are the road owners, may have had a contract with VCS to control parking on the road. If this is so and the vehicle was parked against their conditions does the fact that the wording on their NTK being incorrect help the keeper defend the case? The original NTK was ignored as the vehicle had not been where they claim. An appeal was sent regarding this but ignored.

    Any help with the above questions would be greatfully received.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 25th Apr 18, 12:58 PM
    • 36,282 Posts
    • 20,532 Thanks
    Quentin
    The directions questionnaire came today and I've read the post regarding how to fill it in from the newbies post. I have a few questions however.

    1. The keeper wishes to deal with the case via the papers only......
    Originally posted by Djdamo

    Why do you want this done on papers only?


    Not advised here!!
    Last edited by Quentin; 25-04-2018 at 1:40 PM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 25th Apr 18, 1:00 PM
    • 2,823 Posts
    • 3,516 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    1) Form N159 i believe
    2) Dealt with by N159
    3) Only i fyou want to out the driver. If its on papers tehre will be no witnesses present
    4) Well you need to get the info from the SAR to be sure, but you would point out your evidence that teh car wasnt there - and your evidece to support it. You would need as much as possible. Witnesses ARE evidence.
    5) If it is a real road then of couse they have no rights to enforce there. It isnt private land.
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 25th Apr 18, 7:56 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    Thanks, does N159 replace the directions questionnaire or is it as well as?

    Is there anything wrong with outing the driver at this stage, especially as they are the main witness to where the vehicle was parked. The keeper was not with the vehicle at the time. The other witness is the person the driver was meeting.

    The road is indeed a real road, and according to the highway department it's privately owned by the Welsh Government and as of yet has not been adopted by the council, however there is TRO which covers the road.
    Last edited by Djdamo; 26-04-2018 at 8:05 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 25th Apr 18, 8:06 PM
    • 8,026 Posts
    • 7,882 Thanks
    KeithP
    Thanks, does N159 replace the directions questionnaire or is it as well as?
    Originally posted by Djdamo
    Just sticking N159 into google will get you an answer much quicker than asking that question here.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Apr 18, 8:06 PM
    • 59,444 Posts
    • 72,604 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Is there much chance that the keeper can successfully defend this via papers only with a lack of their evidence? (Appreciate this would just be opinion)
    Yes it could be if the Judge is good, but which court is their local one?

    does N159 replace the directions questionnaire or is it as well as?
    Read the form, download it online, it will tell you what it's for.

    Is there anything wrong with outing the driver at this stage, especially as they are the main witness to where the vehicle was parked. The keeper was not with the vehicle at the time. The other witness is the person the driver was meeting.
    What, you mean the keeper says they were not the driver and nor have VCS complied with the POFA, and the driver was in fact xxxx xxxxx. Trouble with outing the driver is, VCS could move on to the driver if they fail to get the keeper.

    Ive so far been unable to locate documentation or information for a post made by Coupon-mad regarding the TMA 2004 and where a TRO is in place the road can only be enforced by proper penalty notices issued via the council.
    http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=4512.0
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 25th Apr 18, 8:10 PM
    • 36,282 Posts
    • 20,532 Thanks
    Quentin
    Thanks, does N159 replace the directions questionnaire or is it as well as? ........
    Originally posted by Djdamo
    N159 is the notice to both parties that the case is allocated to small claims and that unless anyone objects it will be dealt with by papers alone ( no hearing)
    Last edited by Quentin; 25-04-2018 at 8:15 PM.
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 26th Apr 18, 7:00 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    Ive seen the form, I'm unable to determine if it replaces the directions questionnaire or is a well as?

    As far as I can see there's information required on the N159 form that at present I don't have. t seems as though this would get sent out after the request for a paper hearing has been made?
    Last edited by Djdamo; 26-04-2018 at 7:03 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 26th Apr 18, 7:15 PM
    • 8,026 Posts
    • 7,882 Thanks
    KeithP
    Ive seen the form, I'm unable to determine if it replaces the directions questionnaire or is a well as?

    As far as I can see there's information required on the N159 form that at present I don't have. t seems as though this would get sent out after the request for a paper hearing has been made?
    Originally posted by Djdamo
    The Directions Questionnaire and the Notice of Allocation are two separate parts of the process.
    One follows after the other.

    All this is explained in detail in Bargepole's walkthrough linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.
    .
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 26th Apr 18, 7:57 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    So how can I request for the case to be heard on papers, it's the question I asked a few posts back and was told it's via the N159.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 26th Apr 18, 8:06 PM
    • 8,026 Posts
    • 7,882 Thanks
    KeithP
    So how can I request for the case to be heard on papers, it's the question I asked a few posts back and was told it's via the N159.
    Originally posted by Djdamo
    And whoever told you that was right.

    Have another look at the N159 form.

    There only three tick boxes on it - A, B and C.

    That part of the form looks like this:


    Please post again if you cannot work out which boxes to tick.

    (click on the image to see the whole form)
    Last edited by KeithP; 26-04-2018 at 8:13 PM.
    .
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 26th Apr 18, 8:11 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    On my phone it's a 1 page document. There are no boxes to tick. I'll check on my laptop, I'm assuming from your picture there's more than the 1 page I can see on my phone.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 26th Apr 18, 8:15 PM
    • 8,026 Posts
    • 7,882 Thanks
    KeithP
    Your phone simply isn't up to the job.

    Like most pieces of paper it has two sides.

    Click on the image in my earlier post.
    Last edited by KeithP; 26-04-2018 at 8:30 PM.
    .
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 26th Apr 18, 8:33 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    It would certainly seem so. Thanks for hanging in there.

    So it's a 2 page document and I can see the tick boxes, and I'm ok with which one to tick !!!55357;!!!56841;

    If I fully understand, which is doubtful at this rate, the court will either send a N157 (hearing) or a N159 (no hearing) depending on what the judge has decided. If a N157 is sent the keeper can write to the court stating they have decided not to attend.
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 27th Apr 18, 8:32 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    Can anyone confirm if I have the correct understanding of the N157 and N159 forms please?
    • Djdamo
    • By Djdamo 13th Jul 18, 2:20 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Djdamo
    Finally received the information from submitting the SAR. As expected there's no photos just copies of the letters received, a copy of the original ticket with "parked in a restricted area of car park" as the reason for issue and more importantly I feel, a copy of the original appeal made with notes regarding the case. One note clearly shows a conversation with the staff member who issued the ticket and him stating the vehicle was parked on the road as the driver has claimed.

    I've not heard anything else since sending the directions questionnaire.

    With no proof to their claim, how do they expect to win in court?
    Last edited by Djdamo; 13-07-2018 at 6:04 PM.
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