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  • FIRST POST
    • MMF007
    • By MMF007 17th Mar 18, 6:54 AM
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    MMF007
    Scotland - which form for HMRC if no Confirmation
    • #1
    • 17th Mar 18, 6:54 AM
    Scotland - which form for HMRC if no Confirmation 17th Mar 18 at 6:54 AM
    My dad, resident in Scotland, died in January. He left everything to Mum. The house passes to Mum by virtue of survivorship clause and the only other assets were a car and 3 bank a/cs and approx 15,000 premium bonds, total value of the moveable estate of approx 41,000.
    There will be no IHT due.
    We rang Sherrifs Court to see about Confirmation and they said no need to apply if asset holders are happy to release funds to sole beneficiary. The banks have done this. NS&I have said they 'may' release the premium bond repayment without Confirmation.

    I have 2 questions I should be grateful for any help with:

    Firstly, the IHT return - all the guidance about making an IHT return to HMRC says we have to complete the Confirmation form, C1, as well as the simple IHT form C5. Both forms then need sending to the Sheriff's Court for checking.
    If we don't need Confirmation can we just submit form C5 direct to HMRC?
    ( We appreciate the need to inform HMRC even though the estate will be an exempt estate and are happy to complete the form, but it refers to form C1 as well)).

    Secondly,

    If NS&I will not accept copy death cert and copy Will as evidence of rightful recipient (my mum) when cashing in the Premium Bonds I guess we will have to complete Confirmation application C1. If so, can we list all assets but just request Confirmation solely in respect of the Premium Bonds. I assume the fee for Confirmation will be 250 because dad's total estate was more than 5,000 but less than 250,000.
    I have changed my work-life balance to a life-work balance.
Page 1
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 17th Mar 18, 10:23 AM
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    Keep pedalling
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 18, 10:23 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 18, 10:23 AM
    If you do not need confirmation then you do not need to complete any HMRC forms either.

    If he had more the 5000 of premium bonds NS&I will require confirmation, and you will have to include all assets on it not just the bonds.

    Correction, if over 5000 they may require confirmation rather than will.
    Last edited by Keep pedalling; 17-03-2018 at 10:27 AM.
    • MMF007
    • By MMF007 18th Mar 18, 10:51 PM
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    MMF007
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 18, 10:51 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 18, 10:51 PM
    Thanks KP. It looks like I'll need to finish the Inventory and pay the Sheriffs fee for Confirmation so Mum can be repaid the premium bond money. All other monies have been gathered in.
    I have changed my work-life balance to a life-work balance.
    • Rubik
    • By Rubik 19th Mar 18, 10:31 AM
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    Rubik
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    A Small estate in Scotland is one that is under 36,000 as opposed to the 5,000 in England. THis information from the Scottish Courts and Tribunals website might be of help - http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/taking-action/dealing-with-a-deceased's-estate-in-scotland/small-estates
    • MMF007
    • By MMF007 13th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
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    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    Apologies for not thanking you Rubik.

    Thought I would update -
    NS&I paid out after we sent certified copy of the Will and details of both executors (who both signed the refund application), and copy death certificate. No need for Confirmation. Saved the 250 fee.

    I can't find an email address for the HMRC bereavement team so I shall write snail mail, to submit the 'informal' return, showing the value of the estate. I think we need it recorded because eventually we will be dealing with mum's estate and will need to show that we have still got all the nil rate band to transfer. The guidance clearly states that you have to submit a return even though no tax is due (understandable) but it doesn't say where to submit it if you do not need Confirmation! I'll update once I have a reply from HMRC.
    I have changed my work-life balance to a life-work balance.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 14th Apr 18, 9:58 AM
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    Keep pedalling
    • #6
    • 14th Apr 18, 9:58 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Apr 18, 9:58 AM
    Apologies for not thanking you Rubik.

    Thought I would update -
    NS&I paid out after we sent certified copy of the Will and details of both executors (who both signed the refund application), and copy death certificate. No need for Confirmation. Saved the 250 fee.

    I can't find an email address for the HMRC bereavement team so I shall write snail mail, to submit the 'informal' return, showing the value of the estate. I think we need it recorded because eventually we will be dealing with mum's estate and will need to show that we have still got all the nil rate band to transfer. The guidance clearly states that you have to submit a return even though no tax is due (understandable) but it doesn't say where to submit it if you do not need Confirmation! I'll update once I have a reply from HMRC.
    Originally posted by MMF007
    What guidance are you looking at? As far as I know in these circumstances you do not need to submit anything to HMRC, unless you need to complete a final SA tax return
    • MMF007
    • By MMF007 15th Apr 18, 5:47 AM
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    • #7
    • 15th Apr 18, 5:47 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 18, 5:47 AM
    I refer to the HMRC guidance notes on form C1 and C5 (2006) which state -
    "Filling in form C5(2006)
    Form C1 contains a lot of information and there
    is no need to repeat it on form C5(2006). We do
    need to be sure, however, that you have taken
    into account all the circumstances affecting
    Inheritance Tax.
    You should fill in a C5(2006) if the estate qualifies
    as either an excepted estate, or an excepted
    estate with transferable nil rate band, or an
    exempt excepted estate
    . When working through
    the C5(2006) you may find that there are other
    conditions which mean that the estate does not
    qualify and that you have to stop and fill in a
    formal account, an IHT400. "
    found in HMRC guidance at
    www.gov.uk/government/publications/inheritance-tax-notes-for-completion-of-forms-c1-and-c5-c3-2006
    on page 18

    I understand that to mean we have to submit C5, the 'informal' IHT form ie, a summary, rather than the detailed IHT 400 which would be appropriate if IHT was in fact due. I'd be happy to be wrong but that's the way it reads to me?
    I have changed my work-life balance to a life-work balance.
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