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  • FIRST POST
    • Kl95
    • By Kl95 16th Mar 18, 10:42 PM
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    Kl95
    Kitchen Renovation - Nobilia quality?
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 18, 10:42 PM
    Kitchen Renovation - Nobilia quality? 16th Mar 18 at 10:42 PM
    So we are going to have our kitchen renovated, and want to go for a modern handle-less kitchen. We have received a quote of around 15,000 from Kutchenhaus who supply Nobilia kitchens from Germany which includes Neff appliances as well as quartz 20mm worktops and sinks, taps. The kitchen is fairly narrow and long measuring at around 5.7m x 3.9m.

    I understand from asking a user of this forum that Nobilia are the entry level german kitchen quality so just wanted to know whether this price is reasonable taking into account what is included? Our budget is around about 15k but we do want a quality kitchen at that price - are there any other german brands that perhaps may be of better quality at this particular budget?

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • Furts
    • By Furts 17th Mar 18, 8:10 AM
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    Furts
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 18, 8:10 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 18, 8:10 AM
    It is your choice what you choose and what you spend. I have always been mystified by the attraction to German kitchens. What I ask is does the German kitchen ethos suit the architectural vernacular of the home? Then does the home warrant the money spent which comes with a German kitchen? Then what message is the home owner trying to send out by proudly proclaiming "I have a German kitchen?

    Most people live in ordinary homes and these are well suited to ordinary kitchens. Splashing out on German kitchens is trying to make a silk purse out of a cows ear. Builders like David Wilson, Barratts, and all the others building within miles of my location are building ordinary homes for ordinary people. They know their business model. They know what sells new homes. They do not install German Kitchens.

    Of course there is a market for German kitchens - think London with apartments and all the aspiration "stuff" that goes with this. Likewise the Chelsea Tractor brigade who want to brag about their German kitchen.

    Anecdotal evidence is this. My home has a large kitchen styled to match the architecture of the home. It is an everyday British made kitchen. It was sourced from a builders merchant. Why? Fundamentally because I wanted a quality kitchen vastly superior to the likes of Nobilia. I also wanted a kitchen that was timeless and not subject to the vagaries of fashion. I also wanted value for money. Fitting a Nobilia kitchen in my home would have been an act of madness.
    • thescouselander
    • By thescouselander 17th Mar 18, 10:24 AM
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    thescouselander
    • #3
    • 17th Mar 18, 10:24 AM
    • #3
    • 17th Mar 18, 10:24 AM
    I'm also mystified about the attraction to German kitchens. To my (admittedly non expert eye) the dont actually look much different to the domestic variety.

    I'd suggest forgetting the made in Germany label and compare the physical attributes of the kitchen vs the alternatives.
    Last edited by thescouselander; 17-03-2018 at 5:13 PM.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 19th Mar 18, 9:31 PM
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    Furts
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 18, 9:31 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 18, 9:31 PM
    Back to OP. You have decided on Nobilia, you have decided on Kutchenhaus.

    A word of caution here. There is little response to your post because it is blatantly devoid of information. Nobody knows your layout, the number of units and such like. Which means nobody can comment on pricing - everybody on the forum would be stabbing in the dark. Regardless you want a "brand" so your decision has been made.

    I am happy if you are happy - just shop around the Surrey area seeking the best price. I suspect here you will have limited success, and each showroom will have its territory. A cynic would call this anti competitive behaviour, but the franchisees would call this sound business sense. I have no axe to grind here - that is what you are buying into and I do not live in Surrey so i cannot do anything other than summise.

    My kitchen was an unbranded "el cheapo" out of a builders merchant. But there is a reality check here. Yours comes with unspecified quartz, mine came with Silestone Chrome. Yours comes with Neff appliances, my came with Rangemaster and Miele. Yours comes with Nobilia carcasses so take a careful look here. Mine came with 18mm panels for all backs, all shelfs, all plinths - indeed everything and this included 18mm tops across the base units to keep the rigid carcasses truly rigid. Typical British over engineering here because all carcasses are fully screwed and glued in the manufacturing process anyway. Truly belt and braces but that is what you buy into with an "el cheapo"

    Standard fitting of Blum 180 hinges complete with soft closing on every door and drawer is also a reasonable specification.

    OK none of this comes cheap and an educated guess is pro rata to your kitchen I paid perhaps one third to half the price you will be paying.

    As I said, provided you are happy then I am happy. But deep down are you really happy with what you will be purchasing? Or is a German "brand" going to take you for a ride?
    • Kl95
    • By Kl95 19th Mar 18, 10:22 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    Kl95
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 18, 10:22 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 18, 10:22 PM
    Thanks for both your replies. I have not decided on Nobilia, just wanted to get an idea of what the quality and value for money we would be getting. We will shop around local suppliers as well and see what they have to offer as well.
    • juliebunny
    • By juliebunny 20th Mar 18, 9:07 AM
    • 1,615 Posts
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    juliebunny
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 18, 9:07 AM
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 18, 9:07 AM
    Hello K19, I too am currently shopping around for kitchens, and found a local firm who sell German kitchens, they even brought a mini cabinet to my house to tell me how wonderful it is, soft closing hinges, metal sides to the draws, all takes apart for easy cleaning (did he look at my current kitchen (- but then he assumed that I would want the cheapy 'German' appliances (i presume from looking around my house he was confused as I have a Bosch wm but a Beko cooker LOL) So I was left with the contradiction of him trying to sell me this 'over engineered' (for my needs) kitchen, but with 'free cooker and hob' from an unknown company that only seems to be used via kitchen fitters. I'm sure that whilst the company might be German owned, they will likely be anyway made in China or the like - Teka and then Prima(which seems to just be a sticker, for an applicance that can be made by one of a few other brands from my internet research) difficult to compare their prices, look at reviews etc, and concerns over spares and repairs have knocked that one on the head, oh the power of the internet.
    One of the common issues I've found with the kitchen quotes I'm getting is that no one wants to tell you their individual price for appliances. Obviously you have been quoted Neff, which I believe to be high end (price wise certainly) but I bet they won't tell you exactly what they are charging for those...?
    He then proceeded to offer me 3 prices - one the regular, one the March offer and then the -1k SIGN UP TODAY price. Argggh!!

    Appliances are a big deal for me, I'm not going to accept just what is in their 'giveaway' - especially given some of the recent concerns about integrated applicances and fire safey of appliances in general following noteably from the Grenfell disaster (PLEASE read the Which report for safety recommendations/appropriate metal backing on fridges, freezers.) The salesman poo pooed my concerns about fire safety for appliances yet my friend, an insurance surveyor, has visited many homes where they have caused fires. He's lost his sale now (but thanks for the great design ideas. )
    I rang my builder (I'm blessed to have a recommendation from a friend) and he has steered me towards Magnet (Easter sale coming up too the nice man in the showroom told me) or Howdens.
    Tbh I hadn't even considered Magnet, had assumed they would be expensive, but actually their website is fantastic, really transparent on price, something NONE of the others had been able or willing to share with me. Their reviews seem good and if you look at compare sites, they come out well too for quality.
    Lots of people recommend DIY Kitchens but this wouldn't work for me, I want to see the kitchen (showroom is up North) and need a local outlet in case/almost certainly to deal with for any wrong parts/extras etc. My builder is apparently a pitbull in Howdens, if they get something wrong, LOL!!
    Good luck with your search! Do share your knowledge too!
    Last edited by juliebunny; 20-03-2018 at 9:13 AM.
    Less stuff, more life, love, laughter and cats!
    Even if I'm on the shopping threads, it doesn't mean I'm buying! Sometimes it's good to just look and then hit the CLOSE button!
    • juliebunny
    • By juliebunny 20th Mar 18, 9:16 AM
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    juliebunny
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 18, 9:16 AM
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 18, 9:16 AM
    Just one thing to add, this same kitchen told me they would NOT dispose of my old kitchen, they said it would cost them 500 (really?!) to get rid of it so that is what they would charge me, or I could sort out disposal myself, get a Hippo bag or skip...
    Less stuff, more life, love, laughter and cats!
    Even if I'm on the shopping threads, it doesn't mean I'm buying! Sometimes it's good to just look and then hit the CLOSE button!
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 20th Mar 18, 10:18 AM
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    DaftyDuck
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 18, 10:18 AM
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 18, 10:18 AM
    Trade waste! It is expensive...

    If your old kitchen has even some life in it, try offering it on Free cycle.

    Now, I'm off to source myself a Belgian kitchen! All that chocolate coating!
    • Furts
    • By Furts 20th Mar 18, 11:37 AM
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    Furts
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 18, 11:37 AM
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 18, 11:37 AM
    Hello K19, I too am currently shopping around for kitchens, and found a local firm who sell German kitchens, they even brought a mini cabinet to my house to tell me how wonderful it is, soft closing hinges, metal sides to the draws
    Originally posted by juliebunny
    A comical situation, par for the course in the kitchen industry. You may have been shown the carcass, but the industry does not dwell on this. Panel thickness, edge stripping assemble methods, are relevant and some fall short here. But the crux is the panels - they are all made of recycled waste material coming out of your local garden recycling centre. This gets washed to remove dirt and soil, played around with and made into chipboard. I have yet to meet any owner of a German kitchen proudly pointing at their units and bragging "look at my recycled rotten fence posts".

    Instead the sales person has focused on soft closers and metal drawer boxes - everyday standard kitchen items which do not make German kitchens unique. Even my "el cheapo" has these features. But they are frippery - so what if it is a metal drawer box, this is only modern day cost saving. So what if their are soft closers - mankind existed for centuries without needing this "feature". Sure, it helps prevent ham fisted consumers banging doors and drawers but is this really of any significance? If it significant then why are they not fitted on doors in houses and doors in cars?

    There are shed loads of hype, marketing and BS spewed out over kitchens. It is down to the consumer to individually decide how much of all this is really relevant.
    • juliebunny
    • By juliebunny 20th Mar 18, 1:27 PM
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    juliebunny
    Yes indeed Furts, the comical thing was a) I had to help him carry his samples into the house because he 'had a bad back' and b) the soft closing hinge didn't work when he demonstrated it to me
    Less stuff, more life, love, laughter and cats!
    Even if I'm on the shopping threads, it doesn't mean I'm buying! Sometimes it's good to just look and then hit the CLOSE button!
    • EssexExile
    • By EssexExile 20th Mar 18, 2:18 PM
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    EssexExile
    Our kitchen salesman went on & on about how wonderful the soft closing drawers were, when I asked why no soft closing doors he assured me they weren't important!
    Tall, dark & handsome. Well two out of three ain't bad.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 20th Mar 18, 3:52 PM
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    Furts
    Yes indeed Furts, the comical thing was a) I had to help him carry his samples into the house because he 'had a bad back' and b) the soft closing hinge didn't work when he demonstrated it to me
    Originally posted by juliebunny
    And the third comical thing was to give all the "German Quality" sales pitch and include with this makes of appliances that you had never heard of. Which of course makes anyone then question whether the "German Quality" kitchen is also a smoke and mirrors illusion.

    I have said it many times before, but it does no harm to repeat it. There are numerous "independent" kitchen business showrooms within 15+ miles of me. I have not had a satisfactory experience with any of them. It seems if a person wants to replicate Dell Boy Trotter then the accepted away in the last decade or two is to open an "independent" kitchen showroom. Your experience appears to be along these lines.

    By the law of averages there will be good independents out there. The problem is trying to find out which ones these are, and where they are located. The other problem is they will not be ultra profitable if they are offering the same as can be purchased in the building trade. They know one chipboard carcass is much like another chipboard carcass so sales and marketing has to be introduced to get consumers to part with their money. Hence the independents are likely to be offering "German" or "Italian".

    Today's consumers love brands, no substance, no questions, nothing discerning, so hey presto all this works! Which in turn means there is little need for any worthy skill, or professionalism. Which again is much as you have found out.

    But in fairness to all I am not on a tirade against independents. The reality is the whole industry is dire. To give anecdotal evidence I witnessed consumers queuing at the kitchen sales folks to place orders. Yet all the showroom examples were defective, ill adjusted, damaged and badly fitted. This was at a branch of John Lewis. Which means if John Lewis could not give a ---- then it is little wonder everybody else in the kitchen industry decides likewise.

    Buyer beware. That is why I went for an "el cheapo"!
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 20th Mar 18, 5:15 PM
    • 4,078 Posts
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    onomatopoeia99
    Just one thing to add, this same kitchen told me they would NOT dispose of my old kitchen, they said it would cost them 500 (really?!) to get rid of it so that is what they would charge me, or I could sort out disposal myself, get a Hippo bag or skip...
    Originally posted by juliebunny
    I broke the old units up into panels, and folded down the back seat of the car and took mine up the tip. Took a few trips, but disposal cost was a few quid in fuel and my time at the weekend.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • juliebunny
    • By juliebunny 22nd Mar 18, 8:50 AM
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    juliebunny
    Funny thing about my kitchen search is that I seem to have gone a full circle and am looking at B&Q again tonight. In the (long) time it's taken me to choose a kitchen, they've got some some new ones that might be suitable and SHOCK they actually are transparent in their pricing!!
    Less stuff, more life, love, laughter and cats!
    Even if I'm on the shopping threads, it doesn't mean I'm buying! Sometimes it's good to just look and then hit the CLOSE button!
    • Furts
    • By Furts 22nd Mar 18, 9:00 AM
    • 4,114 Posts
    • 2,648 Thanks
    Furts
    Funny thing about my kitchen search is that I seem to have gone a full circle and am looking at B&Q again tonight. In the (long) time it's taken me to choose a kitchen, they've got some some new ones that might be suitable and SHOCK they actually are transparent in their pricing!!
    Originally posted by juliebunny
    B&Q do two different ranges - pick your price and quality. People knock them, people get snobbish about brands, but for ordinary folks with ordinary homes they tick a box. Kitchens are not like cars where components whirr around and wear out. Kitchens are inert pieces of chipboard - no moving parts. This means that if kept clean, dry, and treated with respect they have an indefinite life span.

    Your B&Q consideration may end up being 100% in the ethos of a money saving forum. See where you get to, then try any friends or contacts you may have in the trade. Remember B&Q do a Tradecard, so if you know folks with these there may be opportunities on pricing.
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 22nd Mar 18, 10:28 AM
    • 25,454 Posts
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    VfM4meplse
    So we are going to have our kitchen renovated, and want to go for a modern handle-less kitchen. We have received a quote of around 15,000 from Kutchenhaus who supply Nobilia kitchens from Germany which includes Neff appliances as well as quartz 20mm worktops and sinks, taps. The kitchen is fairly narrow and long measuring at around 5.7m x 3.9m.

    I understand from asking a user of this forum that Nobilia are the entry level german kitchen quality so just wanted to know whether this price is reasonable taking into account what is included? Our budget is around about 15k but we do want a quality kitchen at that price - are there any other german brands that perhaps may be of better quality at this particular budget?

    Thanks!
    Originally posted by Kl95
    This is a large kitchen, and 15k will buy you a reasonable kitchen. I'm not sure more money will buy better quality, but would certain little allow for more gizmos and gadgets.

    I actually think a reasonable quality (as opposed to top-end) kitchen will last for years if it's well looked after.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • sarahtop
    • By sarahtop 16th Apr 18, 4:13 PM
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    sarahtop
    Am also looking at nobilia and not sure how it stands up against other brands. There don't seem to be many reviews for it. Any ideas re Shuller / Nobilia / - where do I find good reviews?
    • Debbie Savard
    • By Debbie Savard 16th Apr 18, 6:10 PM
    • 318 Posts
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    Debbie Savard
    There's an Audi driver around way with a bumper-sticker "I also have a German kitchen"
    Last edited by Debbie Savard; 16-04-2018 at 9:12 PM.
    • webcrest043
    • By webcrest043 16th Apr 18, 6:13 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    webcrest043
    Great company Nobilia sets high standards for developing kitchen with unique quality and build intelligently designed kitchens at exceptional value.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 16th Apr 18, 7:47 PM
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    Furts
    Great company Nobilia sets high standards for developing kitchen with unique quality and build intelligently designed kitchens at exceptional value.
    Originally posted by webcrest043
    What a balanced, objective, piece of pure cow dung is being put forward here! I recall a similar nonsensical comment being made in the past. Fortunately mse Forum users are savvy enough to see through such comments.
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