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  • FIRST POST
    • MW2725
    • By MW2725 16th Mar 18, 5:36 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 2Thanks
    MW2725
    BW Legal for Napier Parking - 1st Correspondence
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 18, 5:36 PM
    BW Legal for Napier Parking - 1st Correspondence 16th Mar 18 at 5:36 PM
    Hi guys,

    I've been lurking on this forum for quite some time since receiving a PCN from Napier back in 2016. I had foolishly already decided to ignore the original notices and subsequent letters after which the claim was referred to a debt collector. I believe i did issue the debt collector with a template letter stating the debt was denied and to refer it back to Napier after which I didn't hear anything else.

    Now a over a year and half since the original notice, I have received a letter from BW legal. I have been reading the advice on the forum about LBCs and also read through a number of threads dealing with BW legal and have created a draft letter using the information available on here which has been very helpful!

    The thing is the letter I have had form them doesn't clearly mark itself as a LBC, so I'm unsure whether to treat it as such. It simply states they have been instructed by Napier Parking in relation to balance due and that they require payment within 16 days from the date of the letter.

    I have included my draft letter below:

    Dear Sirs,

    Re: Napier Parking PCN

    I am writing to acknowledge receipt of the above letter dated XXXXXX.

    It is unclear whether the correspondence issued to me is a letter before claim, but I will treat it as such.

    The Practice Direction requires us to exchange sufficient information to understand each otherís position. With that in mind your letter does not contain sufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client relies upon.

    The claimantís letter should give concise details about the matter, in order for the defendant to understand and investigate the issues without the need to request further information.

    The letter should include

    1. A clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based.

    2. If financial loss is claimed, an explanation of how the amount has been calculated.

    3. The letter should also Ė List the essential documents on which the claimant intends to rely.

    Additionally, unless the defendant is known to be legally represented your letter should refer the defendant to the practice direction. In particular your letter should ensure it is clear that the court can impose sanctions for failure to comply with the practice direction.

    In order for me to respond in full, please also provide me with the following:

    1.The original parking charge notice

    2. The car parks terms and conditions as referenced in the previous letter

    3. The picture of the signs at the location detailing the car parks terms and conditions

    4. Evidence of the contravention occurring

    5. The operatorís contract which allows them to operate at the site, or confirmation they own the land in question.

    Please ensure that all documents are timed and dated correctly and can be proved to have been taken at the time of the alleged contravention (with particular reference to time-stamped photos).

    In order to comply with the Practice Direction, please also provide:

    1. A clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based.

    2. An explanation of how the amount due has been calculated and what it is based upon.

    3. A list of the essential documents on which you intend to rely.

    I would also like to know whether Napier are relying upon POFA 2012 for 'keeper liability'.

    Please respond with all the information requested and the necessary information required to comply with the Practice Direction.

    Without the information I have listed above, of which your client is obligated to provide, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and consider my position in relation to it, and it would be entirely premature and additionally a waste of costs and court time for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so I will request an immediate stay referencing paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction, and order that this information is provided.

    Yours Sincerely


    I wanted to ask is it worth sending this letter at this stage or sending a more basic letter denying the debt?

    Also not sure worth mentioning but I moved address since the original correspondence from Napier the Debt Collectors and am now back at my parents until next week. I have no idea how they got my parents address as I haven't owned the same car since summer last year and have only been here since January. Is it worth asking them how they managed this in my letter?

    Please let me know if im being a pain, I see you guys get this type of thing all of the time!

    Thanks,
    Mark
Page 2
    • MW2725
    • By MW2725 15th May 18, 6:26 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    MW2725
    Ok, I will consider making a WP offer but I am only thinking about it to make my life easier. Having said that, from reading other threads on here they'd probably reject it.

    Heres my draft response to their generic LBC

    I am writing in reply to your Letter before Claim dated XXXXX.

    I am fairly disappointed for a number of reasons. Firstly your letter states you are acting in line with the current Pre-Action Protocol for debt claims, however your letter fails to actually fulfil the requirements of this Protocol. Please issue a proper Letter before Claim that follows the current Pre-Action Protocol. Without a correct letter and all the information your client is obligated to provide I am unable to consider my position and issue a response.

    Secondly we have already been corresponding in writing for a an amount of time. Your most recent letter was dated XXXXXX and X days letter you have issued this Letter before Claim without even offering time for me to respond to your last letter. In this letter dated XXXXXX you confirm that the photographic evidence you have sent me is dated the XX and not the XX however the copies you have sent me do not prove this as the date is cut off at the start. Not to mention some of the photos are not dated at all.

    Thirdly in my first letter to you I acknowledged your correspondence and explained that I was uncertain if your letter dated XXXXXX was a Letter before Claim but that I would treat it as such. At no point did BW Legal confirm that the letter was not a Letter before Claim and instead decided to string me along with other threatening template letters. I would have expected a Solicitor such as yourselves to act with a little more integrity.

    In my previous letter to you dated XXXXXX I asked for a copy of the original parking notice. You have sent me a copy of the a letter dated XXXXXX, which was sent by your client, but you haven't sent me a copy of the original notice which was issued on XXXXXX according to your correspondence. I am requesting a copy of this again now.

    I would also like to query something with regards to your companies handling of my personal information. Solely out of interest I would like to know how BW Legal acquired my address to which they first issued correspondence (X), as I had only just moved to that address at the time and am no longer the registered keeper of the vehicle allegedly involved in this contravention.

    Shall I simplify this down and just ask that they issue a letter compliant with PAP or is it reasonable to leave the requests in there?

    Thanks,
    Mark
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th May 18, 8:28 PM
    • 57,390 Posts
    • 70,992 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Is making an offer without prejudice still advised in some instances?
    Nope, because it doesn't work with BW Legal so forget that completely.

    I am only thinking about it to make my life easier.
    The opposite applies. It makes you appear weaker, and they will seize on that and proceed.

    This also comes across as very weak:
    I am fairly disappointed
    I go for 'Stop patronising me...' like this:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74046847#post74046847
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 15-05-2018 at 8:30 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MW2725
    • By MW2725 16th May 18, 4:52 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    MW2725
    Ok I've made some changes to my draft and added a little bit.

    I would like to point out that BW Legals conduct so far has been absolutely disgraceful and the letters I have received are full typos, contradictions and outright lies. Companies like yourself are a big threat to consumers and prey on individuals that are less confident with such matters. As you seem to insist on wasting my time, I have a few points to address in response to your letter.

    Your conduct has and continues to be very misleading. As an example should BW Legal not be making it clear to consumers that the expenditure form need only be completed by consumers that are admitting they owe the debt.

    Additionally your letter dated xx states; "On xx you were granted a limited contractual license to enter the land known as ("site")..." Previously in your letter dated xx you confirmed that your client is pursuing me as the registered keeper of the vehicle so it is therefor wrong for your letter to assume that I, personally, was granted a limited contractual license.
    - Wasn't sure about this but noticed it today.

    The other paragraphs from my last draft have remained the same.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks all for your help so far!
    Mark
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 18, 12:57 AM
    • 57,390 Posts
    • 70,992 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Anything is fine, to keep them busy, but you will get a claim so read up on defences.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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