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    • MCelo10
    • By MCelo10 14th Mar 18, 7:09 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    MCelo10
    PCN Liverpool Airport - Next Steps...
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:09 PM
    PCN Liverpool Airport - Next Steps... 14th Mar 18 at 7:09 PM
    HI All

    New to this so here goes!
    I (the registered keeper) recieved a PCN from VCS based at Liverpool Airport. After reveiwing various threads, we sent our 'reply' and have now had a response. Not sure what to do next.

    Please help!
    Below is the original 'reply' we sent through the portal.

    Without prejudice, except as to costs

    Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper [VCSXXXXXXX]

    This letter is a formal challenge to the issue of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper as set out in the current BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice B.22

    On(date), I was the registered keeper of a (car) registration number XXXX XXX.

    Before I decide how to deal with your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper, I should be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal with all the issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informed decision on how I deal with the matter.

    I should be grateful for specific answers to all questions raised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

    I dispute your claim for the reasons set out below. Please note that although I dispute the whole basis of the parking charge, my main concern is its disproportionate and punitive level.

    1. Your parking charge amount claim.
    Please explain on which of the following grounds your claim is based:

    (i) Damages for trespass
    (ii) Damages for breach of contract
    (iii) A contractual sum
    2. Your loss.
    If it is your case that that a trespass was committed or that a contract was breached such that your claim is one for damages; please give me a full breakdown of the actual losses which evidences that this parking charge is a true reflection of the damages caused solely by the alleged parking contravention.


    3. Your status – the creditor.
    Your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper simply mentions ‘Vehicle Control Services Limited’. Please tell me who is the actual creditor making this £100 parking charge demand. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity.

    4. Ownership of premises.
    Please tell me who owns the land as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.
    5. Contractual Authority (as required by BPA Ltd AOS CoP B.7)
    Please provide me with a copy of the contract between your company and the landowner/landholder that provides the necessary contractual written authority for the issue and enforcement of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper.

    6. Signage.
    If it is your case that a contract has been breached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs of the signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawful and legally enforceable contract was been entered into. Please ensure that the photographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Please provide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at the car park. Also provide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and in sufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entry point.
    7. Summary
    I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and as there are no ‘exceptional circumstances’ your comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8). I will then be able to make an informed decision as to how I deal with your Parking Charge Notice – Notice to Keeper.
    If you reject this challenge or fail to address the issues that have been raised then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer the matter for their decision.
    If you fail to follow any of the procedures outlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.
    Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other communication from me to any other person or organisation.
    Yours faithfully
    XX registered keeper XX
Page 1
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 14th Mar 18, 7:18 PM
    • 1,281 Posts
    • 1,733 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:18 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:18 PM
    1: , why without prejudice , you actually want a paper trail that can be used if necessary at a later date

    2: BPA code of practice???? they are members of the IPC


    VCS pay "fishing" rights on the land and YES they can start a court claim in there own name

    the land is owned by peel holdings /liverpool counsil , and yes they know what VCS are doing

    what you have totally missed by not doing research is the fact that this land comes under bylaws and RTA
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Mar 18, 7:20 PM
    • 35,594 Posts
    • 19,809 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:20 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:20 PM
    No next steps with this.

    Appeals are futille

    Ignore everything except a lbcca or Court correspondence (highly unlikely)

    Come back for advice on how to deal with this if it comes to this

    Read up on Liverpool airport threads to see you have little to be concerned about
    Last edited by Quentin; 14-03-2018 at 7:22 PM.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 14th Mar 18, 7:22 PM
    • 1,281 Posts
    • 1,733 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:22 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:22 PM
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 14th Mar 18, 7:24 PM
    • 1,281 Posts
    • 1,733 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:24 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:24 PM
    No next steps with this.

    Appeals are futille

    Ignore everything except a lbcca or Court correspondence (highly unlikely)

    Come back for advice on how to deal with this if it comes to this

    Read up on Liverpool airport threads to see you have little to be concerned about
    Originally posted by Quentin

    2 active cases with court papers and court dates at pepipoo
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • MCelo10
    • By MCelo10 14th Mar 18, 8:14 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MCelo10
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:14 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:14 PM
    No next steps with this.

    Appeals are futille

    Ignore everything except a lbcca or Court correspondence (highly unlikely)

    Come back for advice on how to deal with this if it comes to this

    Read up on Liverpool airport threads to see you have little to be concerned about
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Sit it out then? Do you wantto see their reply?
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 14th Mar 18, 8:16 PM
    • 1,281 Posts
    • 1,733 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:16 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:16 PM
    we know exactly word for word there reply , it has been published many many hundreds of times before
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • MCelo10
    • By MCelo10 14th Mar 18, 8:18 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MCelo10
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:18 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:18 PM
    1: , why without prejudice , you actually want a paper trail that can be used if necessary at a later date

    2: BPA code of practice???? they are members of the IPC


    VCS pay "fishing" rights on the land and YES they can start a court claim in there own name

    the land is owned by peel holdings /liverpool counsil , and yes they know what VCS are doing

    what you have totally missed by not doing research is the fact that this land comes under bylaws and RTA
    Originally posted by twhitehousescat
    I have tried to put in plenty of research and had concluded that this was the best way forward.
    Is it a waiting game now?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Mar 18, 8:20 PM
    • 35,594 Posts
    • 19,809 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:20 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:20 PM
    Read up on appeals to IPC companies in the Newbies FAQ thread! (And the futility of it)
    • MCelo10
    • By MCelo10 14th Mar 18, 8:22 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MCelo10
    we know exactly word for word there reply , it has been published many many hundreds of times before
    Originally posted by twhitehousescat
    So...wait for Court papers? Sorry for continuing with questions but the forums are jungle of info. for new people.
    The reply still wants the driver and they have replied to the question of signage but nothing else.
    Suppose I will sit it out...
    • MCelo10
    • By MCelo10 14th Mar 18, 8:23 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MCelo10
    Read up on appeals to IPC companies in the Newbies FAQ thread! (And the futility of it)
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Is there any point then? or do I need to jump through some of the hoops?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Mar 18, 8:24 PM
    • 17,575 Posts
    • 27,786 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Don't slap 'Without Predjudice' on any document about anything which might end up in a court case, unless you understand its consequences.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Mar 18, 8:27 PM
    • 35,594 Posts
    • 19,809 Thanks
    Quentin
    Is there any point then? or do I need to jump through some of the hoops?
    Originally posted by MCelo10
    As explained in the Newbies FAQ an initial appeal letter shows you didn't ignore the matter should this end up in a court claim . Without prejudice makes it a waste of time!

    No other hoops left

    Wait and see what happens.
    • MCelo10
    • By MCelo10 14th Mar 18, 8:30 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MCelo10
    Don't slap 'Without Predjudice' on any document about anything which might end up in a court case, unless you understand its consequences.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Got the letter from forums so very confused why people are saying it's bad wording!
    Really not sure what to do now!
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 14th Mar 18, 8:34 PM
    • 1,281 Posts
    • 1,733 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    had you read the newbies thread , you would have seen that the words Without prejudice are not mentioned in any suggested appeal template

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 14th Mar 18, 8:35 PM
    • 1,281 Posts
    • 1,733 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    un and owned by Simon Renshaw-Smith. Part of a group of Simon's companies including Excel Parking and Conkai Security. VCS are well known for issuing tickets at Liverpool John Lennon and Robin Hood Airports where it seems they pay the airports a lot of money for the privilege of harassing the airports' customers. Joined the IPC on 29/09/2014.
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Mar 18, 8:39 PM
    • 35,594 Posts
    • 19,809 Thanks
    Quentin
    Got the letter from forums so very confused why people are saying it's bad wording!
    Really not sure what to do now!
    Originally posted by MCelo10
    There's nothing you can do - ignore everything except a lbcca or court correspondence


    Your letter didn't come from the FAQ!
    Last edited by Quentin; 14-03-2018 at 8:41 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 14th Mar 18, 8:39 PM
    • 7,183 Posts
    • 6,661 Thanks
    KeithP
    Really not sure what to do now!
    Originally posted by MCelo10
    The last sentence of post #13 describes exactly what you need to do now.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Mar 18, 11:09 PM
    • 57,432 Posts
    • 71,028 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Got the letter from forums so very confused why people are saying it's bad wording!
    Really not sure what to do now!
    Originally posted by MCelo10
    Not from here you didn't. Is it the awful stuff from Parking Cowboys website?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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