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  • FIRST POST
    • britishboy
    • By britishboy 14th Mar 18, 3:35 PM
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    britishboy
    Travellers on 'holiday let' land
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 18, 3:35 PM
    Travellers on 'holiday let' land 14th Mar 18 at 3:35 PM
    Might be in the wrong section so apologies in advance, close to us there is a large area of land, that since the 2nd world war has housed maybe 20 or 30 chalet type homes, originally for people to holiday in. They were always for use something like 8-10 months of the year while i was growing up. Recently, some of the plots have bene sold off to travellers, and filled with large caravans, along with the usual rubbish, Transit vans, dogs and shoplifting kids. The area is now a fly tippers paradise.

    How would the village, predominantly eldery people, even begin to look into getting them moved on. There must be some law that could be used??
Page 1
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 14th Mar 18, 3:39 PM
    • 1,931 Posts
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    Oakdene
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 18, 3:39 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 18, 3:39 PM
    Might be in the wrong section so apologies in advance, close to us there is a large area of land, that since the 2nd world war has housed maybe 20 or 30 chalet type homes, originally for people to holiday in. They were always for use something like 8-10 months of the year while i was growing up. Recently, some of the plots have bene sold off to travellers, and filled with large caravans, along with the usual rubbish, Transit vans, dogs and shoplifting kids. The area is now a fly tippers paradise.

    How would the village, predominantly eldery people, even begin to look into getting them moved on. There must be some law that could be used??
    Originally posted by britishboy
    Maybe offer to buy the land off them??
    Hiraeth
    • societys child
    • By societys child 14th Mar 18, 3:45 PM
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    societys child
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 18, 3:45 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 18, 3:45 PM
    Complain to the council?

    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 14th Mar 18, 3:48 PM
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    davidmcn
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 18, 3:48 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 18, 3:48 PM
    Probably limits to what extent they can be "moved on" if it's their own land they're on! Planning would be the most obvious route, if they don't have consent for permanent occupation.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 14th Mar 18, 3:50 PM
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    AdrianC
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 18, 3:50 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 18, 3:50 PM
    They might own the property, but I'd bet it's freehold - and their use is not within the lease's restrictions and requirements.

    It's going to be a long, slow and expensive process, though.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 14th Mar 18, 4:32 PM
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    silvercar
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 18, 4:32 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 18, 4:32 PM
    Local council and local councillors.
    • BBH123
    • By BBH123 14th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
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    BBH123
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    Everyones nightmare.
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    • outofworksch
    • By outofworksch 14th Mar 18, 5:34 PM
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    outofworksch
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 18, 5:34 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 18, 5:34 PM
    This may be a silly question but are you sure the plots have been sold to them?
    • diggingdude
    • By diggingdude 14th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
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    diggingdude
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
    start by getting some "NIMBY" signs printed
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    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Mar 18, 6:25 AM
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    Davesnave
    start by getting some "NIMBY" signs printed
    Originally posted by diggingdude
    Would you like to tell us where your back yard is, so we can advise that they move there?

    If they own the plots, moving them off may take a long time. They're breaking planning regs.

    People like this lived on their own land for ten years near my village. The council here tends to be quite light touch in its approach, but eventually they moved in and confiscated the land to offset clearance costs, which were considerable.
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • tori.k
    • By tori.k 15th Mar 18, 8:32 AM
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    tori.k
    firstly I would have a chat with them about tidying the site up, we have a council run site quite close to us and a few larger individual families, most don't want to upset the locals with the individual families you wouldn't really know they are there, over the years they planted hedging that obscures there caravans, they go to work, kids to school like everyone else, occasionally there has been a bit of issue with the council run site that is quickly sorted, the biggest inconvenience is when someone changes caravan/bus to a static its quite a job to get a static down the lane so can block the road for an hour or more. but thats a rarity nowdays as most have been changed.
    The laws have made it so hard for travelers to actually travel anymore its a naturally defensive society, as would anyone who turns up to a place and is instantly disliked regardless, maybe get in contact with the traveller movement they can help with mediation and inclusion if its just the mess thats the issue.
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    • diggingdude
    • By diggingdude 15th Mar 18, 11:25 AM
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    diggingdude
    Would you like to tell us where your back yard is, so we can advise that they move there?.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    No thanks, I don't believe in "moving on" people's perceived problems to someone else. I would suggest looking whether your local authority has a traveller liason officer. Mine does. They may be able to help?
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    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Mar 18, 2:16 PM
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    Davesnave
    No thanks, I don't believe in "moving on" people's perceived problems to someone else.
    Originally posted by diggingdude
    This isn't a 'perceived problem' though; it's a disregard for planning law, which either the local authority act on, or else admit that for a select few, the law doesn't apply.
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • diggingdude
    • By diggingdude 15th Mar 18, 5:02 PM
    • 186 Posts
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    diggingdude
    This isn't a 'perceived problem' though; it's a disregard for planning law, which either the local authority act on, or else admit that for a select few, the law doesn't apply.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    i completely agree with that, regularly come across travellers through work and many of the rules dont apply to them it seems
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    • elsien
    • By elsien 15th Mar 18, 5:09 PM
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    elsien
    Out of interest, how long ago were they in use as a holiday site? You say 8-10 months of the year while you were growing up, but that could potentially be some time ago. Was it a derelict site for a while and could there have been a change of use?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Mar 18, 7:18 PM
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    Davesnave
    i completely agree with that, regularly come across travellers through work and many of the rules dont apply to them it seems
    Originally posted by diggingdude
    I was just pointing-out that the council may be obliged to act when anyone is seen to be challenging planning law in a highly visible manner. Each council chooses their own time frame for this. Mine is quite laissez-faire, but others with greater pressure for housing may feel obliged to move faster or risk not being taken seriously

    For example, there's a small family group with a caravan living on a council lay-by not far from me. They're not messy or anti-social and their child attends the local school, so they've been quietly tolerated for around 2 years. No one in the village is asking for them to be moved. Obviously, they can't stay there for ever, but there is tolerance, because the site hasn't expanded and no one has suffered as a result of their presence.
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 22nd Mar 18, 2:19 AM
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    Cakeguts
    I was just pointing-out that the council may be obliged to act when anyone is seen to be challenging planning law in a highly visible manner. Each council chooses their own time frame for this. Mine is quite laissez-faire, but others with greater pressure for housing may feel obliged to move faster or risk not being taken seriously

    For example, there's a small family group with a caravan living on a council lay-by not far from me. They're not messy or anti-social and their child attends the local school, so they've been quietly tolerated for around 2 years. No one in the village is asking for them to be moved. Obviously, they can't stay there for ever, but there is tolerance, because the site hasn't expanded and no one has suffered as a result of their presence.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    On the other hand a group of travellers some years ago got onto a country park open space not far from where I live. This open space is the only bit of parkland which is not actively managed and so has aspects of countryside in it. Like hay meadows and wild flowers along with 100 year old trees. A lovely place for a walk. The travellers cut down the 100 year old trees that belonged to the local community and burned them for firewood. They put rubbish in the wildlife ponds and they turned the area nearest to the road into a polluted tip. Mounds of rubbish. The damage they caused cost £1000s of council tax payers money to clear up which of course they didn't contribute to. We can never get our trees back to enjoy although they have planted new ones. I am not racist I just don't think that anyone has the right to take what isn't theirs and to destroy what belongs to all of us just so that they can have their lifestyle choice. Living in a caravan is a lifestyle choice. There are plenty of settled traveller families who live in houses. So living in a caravan is not the only way that someone identifies themselves as a traveller. It is purely a lifestyle choice for some families.

    Whether the council acts quickly or not seems to depend on where they have put their caravans. For instance an invasion of a school playing field would mean they were moved off as quickly as possible before they had contaminated the playing field.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 22nd Mar 18, 7:17 AM
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    Davesnave
    I don't put people into named groups, like 'travellers.' I lump them together as people who don't obey planning laws, or in the case you are describing, people who cause criminal damage as well. Nothing excuses the latter.

    Giving people special descriptive titles rewards them with status they don't have; they're just British citzens who ought to abide by the law, and the law should be sufficient to dissuade them from doing otherwise. Clearly, it doesnt.

    Obviously, there are different degrees of not abiding by planning law, so council responses should be proportionate and timely whenever necessary to protect the environment.
    Last edited by Davesnave; 22-03-2018 at 7:23 AM.
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 22nd Mar 18, 9:42 AM
    • 654 Posts
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    John-K
    start by getting some "NIMBY" signs printed
    Originally posted by diggingdude
    NIMBYism refers to things that people hold to be necessary, but that they want someone else to have to deal with. Things like a new power station, or sewerage works.

    Travellers committing crimes and despoiling the area do not fall into this category any more than would a multiple rapist operating in the area.

    It is not NIMBYism to now want criminal scum messing up the village that a community has made into a good place to live.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 22nd Mar 18, 9:44 AM
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    AdrianC
    NIMBYism refers to things that people hold to be necessary, but that they want someone else to have to deal with. Things like a new power station, or sewerage works.

    Travellers committing crimes and despoiling the area do not fall into this category any more than would a multiple rapist operating in the area.

    It is not NIMBYism to now want criminal scum messing up the village that a community has made into a good place to live.
    Originally posted by John-K
    You seem to find those people you deem "travellers" inherently "criminal scum".

    That probably says a lot more about you than about them.
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