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    • Bobby Applejuice
    • By Bobby Applejuice 14th Mar 18, 1:26 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Bobby Applejuice
    Marriage separation :(
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 18, 1:26 PM
    Marriage separation :( 14th Mar 18 at 1:26 PM
    Sad times i'm afraid. Me and my wife are parting ways.

    We'd like a mutually agreed separation. The kids have moved outs do no worries there. We have sold our house and split the cash. I just need to establish what we both get when we divorce. I'm staying in Glasgow she is moving back to Manchester.

    She has a relatively low-paid job (should be just enough for her to survive) but not much else saved (she doesn't have much of a pension or any savings). I have quite a decent pension. I also recently left my business which i started up 25 years ago. I sold my shares and got a decent chunk of pay.

    So i'm currently unemployed and living off my pay. Full transparency, i got 100k for my shares and 40k pay.

    So what should she get if we agree to sort this without solicitors? My feeling is it will be half my pension and possibly half my share value. I'm hoping she cannot touch my 40k pay as, like i said, i'm unemployed for the time being.

    Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
    I'm part Swedish, part Italian, all British.
Page 1
    • Rubik
    • By Rubik 14th Mar 18, 1:34 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 135 Thanks
    Rubik
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 18, 1:34 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 18, 1:34 PM
    I'm sorry to hear of your situation.

    Will you be divorcing under Scots law or English/Welsh law? The answer will make a difference to the advice given.

    And how long have you been married?
    Last edited by Rubik; 14-03-2018 at 1:37 PM.
    • Bobby Applejuice
    • By Bobby Applejuice 14th Mar 18, 1:36 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Bobby Applejuice
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 18, 1:36 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 18, 1:36 PM
    English/Welsh.
    I'm part Swedish, part Italian, all British.
    • Bobby Applejuice
    • By Bobby Applejuice 14th Mar 18, 1:43 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Bobby Applejuice
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 18, 1:43 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 18, 1:43 PM
    Been married just over 10 years.
    I'm part Swedish, part Italian, all British.
    • Rubik
    • By Rubik 14th Mar 18, 1:57 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 135 Thanks
    Rubik
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 18, 1:57 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 18, 1:57 PM
    It would make more sense for you to divorce under Scots law for a number of reasons - firstly you could use the Simplified procedure (after you've been separated for at least 12 months), it's quicker, cheaper and facilitates a more amicable divorce than a petition under E/W law would (for a start - you would have to be seperated for at least two years to achieve a no-fault divorce, rather than the 12 months for Scots divorce). Secondly, under Scots law, marital assets are those which are accrued during the length of the marriage - (excluding gifts and inheritances) up to the relevant date (the agreed date of separation), whereas marital assets under E/W include any owned in either party's name and often can include pre-marital assets (if the marriage is a long one). Under Scots law you would simply split everything 50/50 (or thereabouts) and have that drawn up in a separation agreement so that it is legally binding. Under E/W law, expect to come away with a lot less than 50% - especially as her earning capacity seems much lower than yours.

    You can agree whatever you like without solicitors - but that won't mean it's legally sound, or binding. Perhaps look at what the marital assets are, agree on what is fair (and by fair, I mean to both of you), that neither party will be financially disadvantaged to the advantage of the other, and take things from there. But at some point, and which ever jurisdiction you use, you will need to take the appropriate legal advice.
    • Bobby Applejuice
    • By Bobby Applejuice 14th Mar 18, 2:12 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Bobby Applejuice
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 18, 2:12 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 18, 2:12 PM
    It will be under E/W i'm afraid. If it's not legally sound or binding does that mean there could be ramifications down the line even after the divorce?

    We were hoping to do this without solicitors but just wanted my ducks in a row before getting into detailed discussions. For example, if i offer her half my pension and half my share value does that seem fair (i.e. IF she decided to get a solicitor involved or even just some basic advice might they say i'm being fair)?

    (her earning capacity is lower but i don't know when or how i'll get job.)
    I'm part Swedish, part Italian, all British.
    • Rubik
    • By Rubik 14th Mar 18, 2:49 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 135 Thanks
    Rubik
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 18, 2:49 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 18, 2:49 PM
    It will be under E/W i'm afraid. If it's not legally sound or binding does that mean there could be ramifications down the line even after the divorce?
    Yes - and there would be nothing to prevent her from applying to court to resolve the finances - even years later. see Wyatt V Vince [2016]

    We were hoping to do this without solicitors but just wanted my ducks in a row before getting into detailed discussions. For example, if i offer her half my pension and half my share value does that seem fair (i.e. IF she decided to get a solicitor involved or even just some basic advice might they say i'm being fair)?

    (her earning capacity is lower but i don't know when or how i'll get job.)
    The more you can discuss and agree upon between yourselves, the better - but you both need to be fully informed re what the assets are. Pension sharing is one option - but it can cost circa 2,000 or more to share a pension so depending on what the CETV is of your pension, it may worth considering offering her a cash lump sum in lieu of a pension share, allowing you to keep your pension intact.

    wikivorce.com is a free divorce forum which specialises in advice on divorce finances - worth having a read of their information.
    • Jojo the Tightfisted
    • By Jojo the Tightfisted 14th Mar 18, 6:16 PM
    • 24,245 Posts
    • 95,788 Thanks
    Jojo the Tightfisted
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 18, 6:16 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 18, 6:16 PM
    It makes sense to get solicitors involved, because, if nothing else, if she is moving back home, she's going to be presumably giving up her job and will be as unemployed as you? You don't have to engage them to 'fight', just to sort out the legally fair and appropriate amount you each should receive.
    I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die: I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by.

    Yup you are officially Rock n Roll
    Originally posted by colinw
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 14th Mar 18, 6:24 PM
    • 6,394 Posts
    • 13,128 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 6:24 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 6:24 PM
    You would usually start at 50/50 so she would need a pension sharing order on your pension and 50% of the shares. I think 10 years would be considered sufficiently long for that to be the case. I would get legal advice though. It can still be amicable with solicitors.
    Debt free and mortgage free and early retiree. Living the dream

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages and Endowments, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 14th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    • 29,245 Posts
    • 74,707 Thanks
    Mojisola
    She has a relatively low-paid job (should be just enough for her to survive) but not much else saved (she doesn't have much of a pension or any savings).

    So i'm currently unemployed and living off my pay. Full transparency, i got 100k for my shares and 40k pay.
    Originally posted by Bobby Applejuice
    She might prefer to have more cash now and leave you with the pension - or most of it.

    A fair split isn't necessarily half of everything - sometimes money up front to get re-established is more important than some future payout.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 14th Mar 18, 6:50 PM
    • 17,239 Posts
    • 30,367 Thanks
    Ames
    Have you been together much longer than you were married? As you mention children having left home.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
    • Bobby Applejuice
    • By Bobby Applejuice 15th Mar 18, 12:18 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Bobby Applejuice
    Yes, together 20 years.
    I'm part Swedish, part Italian, all British.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 15th Mar 18, 12:44 PM
    • 11,478 Posts
    • 13,371 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    Have you both considered using a mediation service?

    This is very cost effective.

    Lots of information here:

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/ending-a-relationship/how-to-separate/mediation-to-help-you-separate/
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 15th Mar 18, 3:31 PM
    • 6,487 Posts
    • 8,418 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    An agreement you reach between yourselves will be sound and binding if you then have your agreement recorded in a formal consent order. It sounds as though things are fairly amicable - if you agree that there will be a pension sharing order and 50% of the value of the shares then one of you could then get a solicitor to draft an order in those terms, to send to the court.

    While a court starting from scratch might give your wife a share of the redundancy money, or a higher share of the other assets, if they consider that your long term earning capacity will be higher than yours, but if you and she have agreed on a 50/50 split (excluding the severance pay) then it's likely that a court would approve that, particularly if you explain the thinking behind it.

    The agreement would only not be binding if you left it as an agreement between yourselves rather than turning it into an order (and if you chose not to divorce immediately, a separation agreement, if property drawn up by a solicitor, and with both of you having appropriate advice before signing, will carry a lot of weight, even though it is not strictly legally enforceable. The Wyatt and Vance case Rubik mentioned didn't involve any form of agreement at all, it was a case where hate parties divorced with no financial settlement.

    Mediation may be helpful if the situation is that you and your wife are finding it diffiuclt to reach an agreement, as it one way of helping you to negotiate with each other. If the situation is that you can agree, then getting a solicitor involved at that time to draw up the order would be appropriate.
    • Bobby Applejuice
    • By Bobby Applejuice 15th Mar 18, 3:53 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Bobby Applejuice
    Would it make sense to move forward with this in my current situation rather than wait until i get a job (IF i can get a job)? Any advantages?
    I'm part Swedish, part Italian, all British.
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 15th Mar 18, 8:41 PM
    • 6,394 Posts
    • 13,128 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    If you are currently unemployed I think you could justify keeping your redundancy given your ex is working albeit in a low paid job. If you have 40k of savings from redundancy and a 35k job she would be justified in asking for half the redundancy as you would not need to live off it whilst waiting to get back into work.
    Debt free and mortgage free and early retiree. Living the dream

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages and Endowments, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
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