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    • Wendy64
    • By Wendy64 13th Mar 18, 11:11 PM
    • 6Posts
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    Wendy64
    T junction Accident
    • #1
    • 13th Mar 18, 11:11 PM
    T junction Accident 13th Mar 18 at 11:11 PM
    Today i was involved in a rtc..i was coming upto a T junction ..there was heavy traffic coming from the left hand side ..it was crawling as it was school run time ..i was indicating to turn right ..there was a break in the traffic coming from the right ..a loery flashed me to let me out as i was about to pull out the junction the car directly behind the lorry which was stationary at the time pulled out and was on the wrong side of the road and turned right as i was pulling out ..she hit my front side ..who was at fault ?? I think it was her as you cant overtake near a junction but shes saying it was my fault ! ..she was on the wrong side of the road ..any advice most helpful
Page 1
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 13th Mar 18, 11:38 PM
    • 1,849 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 18, 11:38 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 18, 11:38 PM
    Today i was involved in a rtc..i was coming upto a T junction ..there was heavy traffic coming from the left hand side ..it was crawling as it was school run time ..i was indicating to turn right ..there was a break in the traffic coming from the right ..a loery flashed me to let me out as i was about to pull out the junction the car directly behind the lorry which was stationary at the time pulled out and was on the wrong side of the road and turned right as i was pulling out ..she hit my front side ..who was at fault ?? I think it was her as you cant overtake near a junction but shes saying it was my fault ! ..she was on the wrong side of the road ..any advice most helpful
    Originally posted by Wendy64
    If you were emerging from a side road onto the main carriageway, the onus on you is not to do so until it's clear, but if you were already on the road and she drove into the side of you, she's also to blame.

    Regardless of who is technically to blame, the outcome that matters, i.e. for insurance purposes, is likely to be 50:50.
    Please forgive the deliberate omission of apostrophes on some posts whilst I await MSE to do something about the daft codes that appear in their place when typing on certain devices.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 14th Mar 18, 6:13 AM
    • 2,064 Posts
    • 1,389 Thanks
    Tom99
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 18, 6:13 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 18, 6:13 AM
    I think she was at fault because she was on the wrong side of the road and she should have seen you were waiting to pull out and realised the lorry may be letting you out unless the lorry was indicated left or put on hazard warning lights which seems unlikey
    Also the fact she hit you in the side rather than you hitting her in the side seems to indicate that you moved 1st.
    Whether you end up agreeing that of course is another matter.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 14th Mar 18, 7:02 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
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    IanMSpencer
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:02 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:02 AM
    Too confusing (where was this overtaking car turning right into z I take it was using the wrong side of the road to jump the queue) but you can rely on "Do not overtake at or approaching a junction" to point the finger. However, just because someone lets you out doesn't mean you can rely on them. It is one reason why a pet hate of mine is overly polite drivers who delight in encouraging people out against priority when there is little traffic around.

    The other law the other driver has broken is driving without due consideration to other road users.

    If you are saying that the car came from the left then I would say it is their fault - it is entirely predictable that an emerging car would not recheck for a car doing a stupid overtake. However, when we drive we should expect stupid.
    • Wendy64
    • By Wendy64 14th Mar 18, 7:21 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy64
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:21 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:21 AM
    Too confusing (where was this overtaking car turning right into z I take it was using the wrong side of the road to jump the queue) but you can rely on "Do not overtake at or approaching a junction" to point the finger. However, just because someone lets you out doesn't mean you can rely on them. It is one reason why a pet hate of mine is overly polite drivers who delight in encouraging people out against priority when there is little traffic around.

    The other law the other driver has broken is driving without due consideration to other road users.

    If you are saying that the car came from the left then I would say it is their fault - it is entirely predictable that an emerging car would not recheck for a car doing a stupid overtake. However, when we drive we should expect stupid.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    Yes the other car was on the wrong side of the road and was turning into the lane i was coming out of
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 14th Mar 18, 7:26 AM
    • 1,343 Posts
    • 916 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:26 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:26 AM
    One may argue you failed to give way to a vehicle on the main carriageway. Has the truck driver provided any details as a witness?
    • Wendy64
    • By Wendy64 14th Mar 18, 7:42 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy64
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:42 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:42 AM
    When they are driving on the wrong side of the road and overtaking a stationary vehicle right on a T junction ???
    • Wendy64
    • By Wendy64 14th Mar 18, 7:43 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy64
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:43 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:43 AM
    I do have a witness as well
    • Svein Forkbeard
    • By Svein Forkbeard 14th Mar 18, 7:51 AM
    • 254 Posts
    • 729 Thanks
    Svein Forkbeard
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:51 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 7:51 AM
    I had an accident recently at a T Junction (completely different circumstances) I was turning right and guy coming from right indicated left and then changed his mind, I have a witness but I reckon the best I can get is 50:50 but at the end of the day I pulled out when unsafe to do so so I'm not holding my breath.

    I think you have a stronger case. But even then?
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 14th Mar 18, 8:03 AM
    • 1,343 Posts
    • 916 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    When they are driving on the wrong side of the road and overtaking a stationary vehicle right on a T junction ???
    Originally posted by Wendy64
    If you saw all that happen then why did you pull out?
    • Ant555
    • By Ant555 14th Mar 18, 12:25 PM
    • 803 Posts
    • 312 Thanks
    Ant555
    I had an accident recently at a T Junction (completely different circumstances) I was turning right and guy coming from right indicated left and then changed his mind, I have a witness but I reckon the best I can get is 50:50 but at the end of the day I pulled out when unsafe to do so so I'm not holding my breath.
    Originally posted by Svein Forkbeard
    I think this is also a common 'crash for cash' scam nowadays as the proliferation of dash cams has made it a little bit trickier to get away with slamming on the brakes. A standard Dash cam is of little use as it wont catch the relevant action if you are hit in the side.
    Admittedly its a different situation from the OP though.
    • reeac
    • By reeac 14th Mar 18, 2:04 PM
    • 1,199 Posts
    • 485 Thanks
    reeac
    If you saw all that happen then why did you pull out?
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    Presumably the overtaking and the pulling out happened simultaneously. I think that the overtaking at a road junction should be the significant factor. I had exactly the same situation once except that the overtaker was a motorcyclist and it was a near miss with lots of shouting from the latter. ....all very silly.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 14th Mar 18, 2:09 PM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,080 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    Yes the other car was on the wrong side of the road and was turning into the lane i was coming out of
    Originally posted by Wendy64
    Got it. As you have a witness, I think you have a good chance of a claim as the other driver was driving carelessly - in fact borderline dangerous driving (far below the standard of a reasonable and careful driver).

    However, the catch will always be that there is an argument that you did not check that it was safe to proceed. Personally, I'd say that the behaviour of the other driver is so poor it is unreasonable to hold you to account. Myself, I'd be tempted to report it to the police as you have a witness.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 14th Mar 18, 2:16 PM
    • 5,136 Posts
    • 6,884 Thanks
    spadoosh
    Doesnt make much sense to me.

    Youre at a t junction wanting to turn right, loads of traffic coming from the left (the lane you want to go in). A lorry from the right flashes you out whilst simultaneously a car behind them overtakes the lorry and tries to turn down the road youre coming from.

    How was the car behind the lorry able to overtake if traffic was heavy and crawling on the main carriageway. The lane youre saying they used to over take wouldve been full of slow moving cars the way youve described it.

    Im not saying extremities dont happen, i know cyclist often face problems of being overtaken and then someone trying to turn left immediately but a car overtaking a lorry to do it?


    If its as you suggest i would say 100% the other driver is at fault. Unless you have decent witness and good evidence though i dont think youll convince the insurer enough for them to fight it
    Don't be angry!
    • EssexExile
    • By EssexExile 14th Mar 18, 2:31 PM
    • 2,815 Posts
    • 1,958 Thanks
    EssexExile
    Doesnt make much sense to me.

    Youre at a t junction wanting to turn right, loads of traffic coming from the left (the lane you want to go in). A lorry from the right flashes you out whilst simultaneously a car behind them overtakes the lorry and tries to turn down the road youre coming from.

    How was the car behind the lorry able to overtake if traffic was heavy and crawling on the main carriageway. The lane youre saying they used to over take wouldve been full of slow moving cars the way youve described it.

    Im not saying extremities dont happen, i know cyclist often face problems of being overtaken and then someone trying to turn left immediately but a car overtaking a lorry to do it?


    If its as you suggest i would say 100% the other driver is at fault. Unless you have decent witness and good evidence though i dont think youll convince the insurer enough for them to fight it
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    The flashing lorry (dirty boy) was coming from the left.
    OP, your witness isn't your passenger is it? They don't carry much weight. As others have said, the insurance company will probably decide, unless you feel like challenging them if they go 50:50.
    Tall, dark & handsome. Well two out of three ain't bad.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 14th Mar 18, 2:33 PM
    • 18,570 Posts
    • 12,725 Thanks
    molerat
    Doesnt make much sense to me.

    Youre at a t junction wanting to turn right, loads of traffic coming from the left (the lane you want to go in). A lorry from the right flashes you out whilst simultaneously a car behind them overtakes the lorry and tries to turn down the road youre coming from.

    How was the car behind the lorry able to overtake if traffic was heavy and crawling on the main carriageway. The lane youre saying they used to over take wouldve been full of slow moving cars the way youve described it.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    I think you have completely misunderstood.

    Lorry on left in slow moving traffic. OP turning right out of junction. Lorry on left lets op out into slow moving traffic. Car on left overtakes lorry to turn right into junction op is emerging from.

    Nearly happened to me the other day turning left out of a junction. Looked left, slow moving traffic, looked right nothing coming, started to pull out and car from left decided to overtake 3 cars to come into my junction.
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    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 14th Mar 18, 2:36 PM
    • 1,764 Posts
    • 9,373 Thanks
    NBLondon
    Youre at a t junction wanting to turn right, loads of traffic coming from the left (the lane you want to go in). A lorry from the right flashes you out whilst simultaneously a car behind them overtakes the lorry and tries to turn down the road youre coming from.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    I read it as the lorry was coming from the left; flashed to allow Wendy to turn in front of it and the other vehicle overtook the lorry to turn right into the road Wendy was emerging from. Which really suggests the other car was not paying attention as even if Wendy didn't move they would have to go across her nose...

    I used to see a lot of this - whiz up the other side to pass a queue and then turn right - in morning rush hour near the Blackwall Tunnel.
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    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 14th Mar 18, 3:26 PM
    • 12,286 Posts
    • 9,615 Thanks
    unholyangel
    I believe theres case law on similar circumstance. Such as powell v moody where the overtaking vehicle (biker) was 80% liable and the emerging car was 20%.

    In OP's case, I'd expect liability to be greater on their part unless they were inching out and their vision of that car was obstructed (I wouldve expected it to come into view as soon as it pulled out from behind the lorry but this might not be accurate depending on road layout).
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Wendy64
    • By Wendy64 14th Mar 18, 3:56 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy64
    There was a no traffic coming from the right when the lorry let me out ..it was heavy traffic from the left ..right side traffic was clear
    • Wendy64
    • By Wendy64 14th Mar 18, 4:00 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy64
    No witness is pedestrian who saw the lorry flash to let me out
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