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  • FIRST POST
    • carolinebapganza
    • By carolinebapganza 13th Mar 18, 9:24 AM
    • 8Posts
    • 3Thanks
    carolinebapganza
    Indigo/ZZPS Letters re Southeastern Station Parkin
    • #1
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:24 AM
    Indigo/ZZPS Letters re Southeastern Station Parkin 13th Mar 18 at 9:24 AM
    I wonder if anyone might be able to help me please as I'm freaking out and am reading conflicting information on the best course of action.

    I have parked at my local South Eastern train station car park (Crayford) for a number of years (and have the receipts to show). I am always in a massive rush in the mornings as cannot drop my daughter to school until 7.25am in Bexleyheath and then have to rush back to Crayford for either the 7.36 or 7.40 train. Because of this I pay via the app as I don't have enough time to go and physically buy a ticket. There have been a few occasions where the app won't work and therefore I haven't had a ticket on these days. My fault I know as I could phone a number to pay but to be honest it always goes totally out of my mind once I'm at work and up to my eyes in it!

    In the past I have appealed when these tickets have come in citing the app failure and also the fact that people park over two spaces and they don't get ticketed for it etc (I have pictures of this) and they were written off. However, I have ignored the last couple of tickets I have received because I've googled so many things that say not to acknowledge it etc (yes, I am clearly stupid!) and they have now turned into demanding letters from Indigo. The first one is for a ticket dated 3rd October which I ignored and have now subsequently received a letter from ZZPS where they have hiked the cost up to 170.

    Yesterday I also received another letter from Indigo for a ticket on 18th January demanding 124 from me which I assume will also pass to ZZPS if I ignore it.

    I am burying my head in the sand and ignoring these at the moment as I don't know what to do but I'm becoming really anxious and worried. If I had the money I would probably pay them at this point because I'm really freaking out about it but unfortunately I haven't. Any advice would be really gratefully received!

    I have tried looking at some of the threads but get very confused but what is the best thing to do. Most of them seem to be that people have appealed using POPLA but I imagine i'm beyond that phase now that it's gone to ZZPS. I've also read to never acknowledge them and so I am not sure what the best course of action is!

    Thanks in advance!!
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Mar 18, 9:30 AM
    • 18,019 Posts
    • 28,539 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:30 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:30 AM
    I have tried looking at some of the threads but get very confused but what is the best thing to do. Most of them seem to be that people have appealed using POPLA but I imagine i'm beyond that phase now that it's gone to ZZPS. I've also read to never acknowledge them and so I am not sure what the best course of action is!
    Do please read the opening post in the following thread created by an absolute newbie (like yourself). The issue is completely encapsulated by this excellent analysis and proposal for dealing with it.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73963466#post73963466
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • carolinebapganza
    • By carolinebapganza 13th Mar 18, 9:38 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    carolinebapganza
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:38 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:38 AM
    Hiya. I did read this but thought that it was a different scenario as they had parked and caused an obstruction whereas mine was failure to display a ticket
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Mar 18, 9:50 AM
    • 2,749 Posts
    • 1,634 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:50 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:50 AM
    Read this reply too which confused me as I don't know what an LBC or MCOL is?
    Originally posted by carolinebapganza
    LBC = Letter Before Claim
    MCOL - Money Claim On Line
    All the acronyms are explained in the Newbies section - go there and read NOW.
    Also, is it best to .........
    Originally posted by carolinebapganza
    Go to the Newbies Sticky and read it until you understand it. It will take some reading but you will get there.
    • carolinebapganza
    • By carolinebapganza 13th Mar 18, 10:02 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    carolinebapganza
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 18, 10:02 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 18, 10:02 AM
    Thank you - sorry to be the annoying new person who isn't paying attention properly - I'm just a bit anxious about this situation if I'm honest and finding it hard to think clearly!

    Thanks for your help.
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 13th Mar 18, 10:07 AM
    • 103 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    financerulez
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 18, 10:07 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 18, 10:07 AM
    Do as the above have suggested and reread the newbies post and try searching Indigo and reading a few threads.

    Don't be anxious or worry yourself - you're in an absolutely fine position. The fact you've ignored them is better than appealing and telling them you're the driver - don't do that. You'll almost certainly not need to pay them a penny.

    It would be useful for us to see the original correspondence (redacted so you don't give away your identity) so we can see whether Indigo are trying to claim a byelaw breach, a t&cs breach, or a bit of both.

    If it's their usual tripe, the 3rd October one will effectively expire in just over 2 weeks, but you'll have to play letter ping pong with the January one, until July. Or you can ignore, but the letter ping pong is the better option for time wasting in this case.

    Note theres no POPLA for byelaw cases, and hasn't been for some time. Type Indigo into the search bar and read about cases from last 6 months, and your mind should be put to ease
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Mar 18, 10:12 AM
    • 9,502 Posts
    • 9,271 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 18, 10:12 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 18, 10:12 AM
    Indigo/railway land parking tickets are a scam, read this

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73963466#post73963466

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They nearly always lose) and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-03-2018 at 10:19 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 13th Mar 18, 12:21 PM
    • 3,411 Posts
    • 4,549 Thanks
    waamo
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 18, 12:21 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 18, 12:21 PM
    Your ticket is no different. The reasons for a ticket are actually pretty incidental.

    The thread linked to by Umkomaas sums the situation up perfectly for nearly every ticket including yours.
    This space for hire.
    • carolinebapganza
    • By carolinebapganza 14th Mar 18, 10:30 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    carolinebapganza
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 10:30 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 18, 10:30 AM
    Hi. I'm unable to upload the letters because photobucket is blocked on my work computer but the wording on the letter from Indigo is as follows:

    Overdue Penalty Notice to Owner

    A Penalty Notice was affixed to the above-mentioned vehicle which was parked on Railways Assets (Railway Property) in contravention of the Railway Byelaws ("Byelaws") as displayed on the signage at the location. Photographic evidence can be viewed at ipaymypcn].

    An offence was committed by breaching Byelaw 14 and having identified that an offence occurred, your data has been released by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency as our client has reasonable cause (under Regulation 27(1)(e) of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002); DVLA records indicate that you were the registered keeper of the vehicle on the date of the offence.

    You may be legally liable for this offence even if you were not the driver at the time.

    The notice affixed to the car as noted above was an offer to allow you an opportunity to avoid a criminal prosecution. It has not been paid, so further administration and debt recovery charges have now been added. if this offer is not accepted, then our Client may pursue you through the Magistrates Court by way of a private criminal prosecution. This can result in a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, as set out in section 37 of the Criminal Justice Act 1982, currently 100.

    Additionally, Byelaw 14(4)ii allows for vehicles to be clamped, and our client may well exercise this option in future. you will be liable for all costs associated with the clamp, its removal as well as any unpaid penalty notices outstanding for the same VRM.

    the amount of 100,00 is now due and we invite you to take up this offer immediately.

    Please pay this penalty now or see overleaf for further details.
    • carolinebapganza
    • By carolinebapganza 14th Mar 18, 10:33 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    carolinebapganza
    The letter from ZZPS is far more simple:

    Your unpaid penalty has been passed to us to resolve.

    The balance owed is 170 and includes late payment and debt recovery charges.

    What you should do next:

    Pay
    Contact us
    Telephone: 01932 918916
    Email: customerservicesatzzps
    Write: Address as at the head of this letter
    Seek advice (details of how and where are contained overleaf)

    Please do not ignore this letter; we are here to help you resolve this penalty.

    However, we will continue to pursue the matter in the absence of any contact from you.

    Yours sincerely

    Customer Services
    ZZPS Limited
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Mar 18, 10:45 AM
    • 9,502 Posts
    • 9,271 Thanks
    The Deep
    What they have not said is that only the TOC can instigate a prosecution (private), within six months of the event, in a Magistrates Court against the owner of the vehicle or the driver. That any fine imposed would go into the General Fund, (i.e. neither the TOC nor the PPC would benefit).
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 14th Mar 18, 12:40 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    financerulez
    Is it the same letters for both incidents?

    Your goal is simply to get past 6 months from the incident, at which time their option of a private criminal prosecution expires (not that they ever do them anyway.)

    You can either continue to ignore them, or if you want to annoy them write back to waste some time and ask Indigo:

    1. I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle. You stated that an offer was made to the Driver of the car, I as Registered Keeper have not received any offers.
    2. Which specific byelaw do you allege has been breached?
    3. You have stated I, the Registered Keeper, may be "legally liable for this offence even if you were not the driver at the time." Please explain how that can be so? Note POFA 2012 does not apply to byelaw land with reference to keeper liability. I am the Registered Keeper, no admissions regarding who was driving or who owns the vehicle will be made, and no assumptions can be drawn.
    4. The byelaws only allow clamping after an alleged byelaw breach has been proven in a court of law.

    Copy the letter to Indigo, and add to the ZZPS one:

    Previously it was stated that this penalty was an offer. An offer does not incur late payment charges. Further an offer most certainly would not be applicable for debt recovery charges. There will be no need to 'resolve this' offer.

    You must have mixed up my case with with someone else's case, as clearly your letter does not fit with the previous letter from Indigo. I would suggest you contact your client to establish how this mix-up occurred, and send me confirmation that this matter is closed with regards to my involvement. Further use of my details, which you clearly must be using by accident, may result in me bringing a claim under the DPA and for harassment.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Mar 18, 5:48 PM
    • 58,533 Posts
    • 72,030 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Dear ZZPS,

    What you should do now:

    (insert favourite expletive here)...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • carolinebapganza
    • By carolinebapganza 19th Mar 18, 9:54 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    carolinebapganza
    Thank you so much! I am going to do separate letters for both the tickets today and try and hang it out. The one from 3rd October obviously hasn't got long to go but the other one is 18th January so I'm obviously going to have to work to try and drag that out a bit! Thank you again, I'm really grateful for your help
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 19th Mar 18, 11:19 AM
    • 36,811 Posts
    • 83,297 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Play ping pong by replying to everything they send about a fortnight later. Ask lots of questions.
    The Owner is liable for a Byelaws breach, not the Keeper, so ask them to contact the owner, who you will not name.
    Ask them how they can brig a claim for a Byelaw breach when they are not the Landowner (usually Network Rail) or the TOC.

    Ask for ADR, as is your right under the Alternative Dispute Resolution Act 2015.

    Keep asking questions until six month are up, them just tell them that since this is now statute barred thy must cease and desist all contact with you, and delete all your personal data they have collected.

    Please DO complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 19th Mar 18, 1:38 PM
    • 9,502 Posts
    • 9,271 Thanks
    The Deep
    As they have wasted your time, when this has timed out, waste theirs.

    Send them a letter before action, there are plenty of examples on the internet, and you do not have to follow through if you do not want to. The very fact that you have sent one means that they have to devote resources to dealing with it.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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