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  • FIRST POST
    • mixedpickle
    • By mixedpickle 12th Mar 18, 10:41 PM
    • 9Posts
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    mixedpickle
    IAS appeal started for PCM charge - help needed!
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 18, 10:41 PM
    IAS appeal started for PCM charge - help needed! 12th Mar 18 at 10:41 PM
    I received a parking charge from PCM in the post and responded both through their appeal route as well as starting an IAS appeal, and admitting that I was the driver, all before finding this forum.
    PCM has responded to the IAS appeal and I now have 6 days (til 19.3.18) to make further submissions or allow the appeal to go to adjudication. I gather from this forum that the IAS process is basically pointless for people in my position, and I expect that it will be turned down.
    2 questions:
    - is there any point adding to the appeal? for example I could point out that the signage is well over 2metres tall, and there are no markings on the bay indicating that it is not for parking.
    - with PCM I understand that Gladstones would likely pursue an unpaid charge. From your discussion with another forum user relating to a charge from a different company I saw that following his unsuccessful IAS appeal your advice was still to not pay, and to ignore further demands for payment. Is this the same case for PCM and Gladstones?
    I'm due to go on a long-awaited holiday on 15.3.18 and so pretty stressed out about this deadline now for 19.3.18 to respond.
    Any advice appreciated.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Mar 18, 10:48 PM
    • 58,460 Posts
    • 71,967 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 10:48 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 10:48 PM
    You've started so you finish it. Just put something in and forget about IAS, don't bust a gut.

    Certainly talk about unmarked bay lines and no evidence of a contravention, and criticise the signs. But expect to LOSE, then ignore them unless a court claim or LBCCC arrives (at the moment they use Gladstones).

    From your discussion with another forum user relating to a charge from a different company I saw that following his unsuccessful IAS appeal your advice was still to not pay, and to ignore further demands for payment. Is this the same case for PCM and Gladstones?
    Yes, all the same.

    This person on pepipoo just beat Gladstones in court today, despite losing at IAS first. A long thread but well worth reading as this is what will happen to you:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=107768

    Do you know who you are dealing with?

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/is-it-pcm-uk-who-make-up-stuff-all-time.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/heath-parade-graham-park-way-scam-site.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/pcm-lose-heath-parade-claim.html

    HTH
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Mar 18, 10:50 PM
    • 1,372 Posts
    • 1,841 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 10:50 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 10:50 PM
    the IPC appeal will be heard by the same people that own gladstones , anything you say will be held against you , and gladstones will do a no fee no pay job on you ,

    do not give them ammo , say nothing , save your ammo for court if they pick up on the case

    any failings or lack of law that you make in a IPC appeal will be jumped on and they will know you are an easy win


    do not bother with the IPC appeal
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • mixedpickle
    • By mixedpickle 12th Mar 18, 11:25 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mixedpickle
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 11:25 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 11:25 PM
    Thanks both for quick replies.
    twhitehousecat when you say IPC appeal are you referring to IAS appeal - i.e. is that the same thing?
    Am i right in understanding that your advice would be to not submit anything further to IAS at this stage? I understand it will go to adjudication now anyway and as Coupon-Mad has pointed out I should expect to lose regardless of what I say.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Mar 18, 11:34 PM
    • 1,372 Posts
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    twhitehousescat
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 11:34 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 11:34 PM
    IPC , IAS , or whatever the sods are called this week

    it will not go to adjudication if you submit nothing
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • mixedpickle
    • By mixedpickle 12th Mar 18, 11:44 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mixedpickle
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 11:44 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 11:44 PM
    Ha - fair enough
    Unfortunately I already started the appeal and PCM has responded. The website now says I can add evidence in response to theirs, after which they will again have the opportunity to add evidence. Alternatively I can choose to refer the case directly to arbitration (which will happen by default if no new evidence added by 19.3.18), at which point the decision will be made.
    From the prankster links sent by Coupon-Mad it looks like the signage issues are standard PCM style.
    So - sounds like I should submit nothing further, let is be turned down and then ignore the inevitable s**tstorm..?!
    And in the meantime, complain to the landowner and the local MP.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Mar 18, 1:01 AM
    • 58,460 Posts
    • 71,967 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 18, 1:01 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 18, 1:01 AM
    Submit anything further you want to, or leave it and don't worry about it if you lose.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Mar 18, 8:06 AM
    • 9,500 Posts
    • 9,259 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 18, 8:06 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 18, 8:06 AM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They nearly always lose) and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • mixedpickle
    • By mixedpickle 3rd Apr 18, 7:00 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mixedpickle
    • #9
    • 3rd Apr 18, 7:00 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Apr 18, 7:00 PM
    Update: IAS appeal lost - naturally. Today 'Final Reminder' letter received demanding 100 and threatening the increase to 160 + 'reasonable administration costs'(whatever those might be) and passing on to debt agency / pursuit in court.

    So - what should I be doing in the meantime? Apart from documenting signage / markings precisely in the bay where charge was issued, writing to landowner and MP to complain.

    Can anyone point me in the direction of letter templates for the landowner / MP communications?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 3rd Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    • 18,346 Posts
    • 23,233 Thanks
    Redx
    SUCCESSFUL COMPLAINTS is in the sticky threads, look for suitable posts and letters by searching from the last page backwards

    IGNORE the debt collectors , they are powerless
    Last edited by Redx; 05-05-2018 at 9:14 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Apr 18, 7:27 PM
    • 58,460 Posts
    • 71,967 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Can anyone point me in the direction of letter templates for the landowner / MP communications?
    Simply try searching this forum for:

    Dear yours faithfully

    and 'SHOW POSTS' and you will find all recent letters written on this forum, many of which will be to Managing Agents (if a residential car park) and many will be to MPs or landowners.

    If it is a residential car park of flats, read the threads by hairray and Daniel san for example letters.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • mixedpickle
    • By mixedpickle 5th May 18, 7:08 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mixedpickle
    Update:
    Letter received from Trace debt recovery - threatening court and associated fees/ legal costs. trusting you Redx that they are powerless but scary all the same. is this a familiar debt company name in these situations?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th May 18, 7:19 PM
    • 7,685 Posts
    • 7,400 Thanks
    KeithP
    Post #4 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread describes in the greatest detail how to deal with debt collector's letters.

    There really is no need to report on debt collector's letters. The advice is always the same.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th May 18, 7:24 PM
    • 58,460 Posts
    • 71,967 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Update:
    Letter received from Trace debt recovery - threatening court and associated fees/ legal costs. trusting you Redx that they are powerless but scary all the same. is this a familiar debt company name in these situations?
    Originally posted by mixedpickle
    Yes, but why 'Trace' (who IIRC, normally trace people to new addresses)?

    Are you at a different address? If so, you should have written & given the new address to PCM, to ensure that when they get Gladstones to start the inevitable (but likely doomed) court claim later this year, you will see the LBC and court claim paperwork in good time.

    You do realise you will be defending a claim like everyone else v PCM? We see posters report wins in 99% of defended cases seen here, only TWO were lost in 2017 and there is no risk, no CCJ as long as you do not miss any court paperwork or deadlines/directions.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • mixedpickle
    • By mixedpickle 5th May 18, 8:30 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mixedpickle
    No - address has not changed..
    thanks for the reassurance - just so counterintuitive to ignore - but guess thats what they rely on
    • mixedpickle
    • By mixedpickle 31st May 18, 11:14 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mixedpickle
    Update: finally managed to get hold of a contact at the landowner and emailed them complaining about the parking charge. Within minutes they had replied and we were speaking on the phone. A couple of hours after that I received en email briefly saying the PCN was cancelled. SUCCESS!!

    But - during the same phone conversation and in a subsequent email exchange the rep of the landowner admitted that reason for the cancellation of the PCN was that it had recently (this month) come to light that the loading bay where I was photographed does not in fact belong to the landowner employing PCM, but to the council. PCM therefore has been operating this loading bay WITHOUT ANY JURISDICTION. WHAAAAAT?????? I was so angry that I was shaking - the hours that I have wasted, and no doubt thousands in fines that have been collected without the company even having the usual tenuous right makes me feel ill just to think about it.

    I replied to the landowner rep asking how long PCM had been operating on the site, but he claimed that another company was in fact held the contract. When I asked for a contact at that company, he replied asking why I wanted to know, and has so far refused to answer.

    I dread to think how many hundreds of PCNs have been issued and paid by people that had no idea about how to object. The site includes a HEALTH CENTRE for gods sake - people go there specifically because they are SICK and would therefore be even less equipped to navigate the deceptive practices that I have been subject to. If it weren't for this forum I would have paid up for sure.

    So - what can I do to take this further - I'm thinking FOI to the company that allegedly holds the contract with PCM / the PCM itself to ask for numbers of PCNs issued on that loading bay... what would you all advise?? In the meantime I will be writing to the MP and the PALS team at the NHS Trust which rents space at the site, to complain. The health centre manager has agreed, somewhat reluctantly, to put up a couple of signs notifying staff and patients about this. But if they have paid already, I imagine its going to be even more difficult to go about getting a refund...

    They can't be allowed to get away with this - please send any advice.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st May 18, 11:24 PM
    • 58,460 Posts
    • 71,967 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done you!


    I'm thinking FOI to the company that allegedly holds the contract with PCM / the PCM itself to ask for numbers of PCNs issued on that loading bay.
    You can't use FOI to a private company. You can only send a SAR for all data held & processed about your/your vehicle.

    I will be writing to the MP and the PALS team at the NHS Trust which rents space at the site, to complain.
    Great, what about exposing this in the local press as well? Up for that, to tell local people?

    Get it in writing that the landowner KNOWS that PCM were operating in a loading bay that was out of the authorised area on Council land. And email the Council Highways Dept to ask what they know about this (you CAN FOI them as a Council is a public body).

    Get your MP to lend weight to these complaints and send their own, too.

    Then use all the evidence you can amass, to make a complaint to the Information Commissioner that PCM have harvested your data without 'reasonable cause' to harass you and demand money for ticketing on Council owned land where they are prohibited from operating...etc. The complaint needs to focus on 'data abuse' to the ICO in the complaint - once you have evidence rather than hearsay from phone conversations.

    And send the evidence to the DVLA and the IPC as well, as a formal complaint once you have evidence. That would not be about data abuse, that would be about ticketing illegally.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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