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    • Help1234
    • By Help1234 12th Mar 18, 8:38 PM
    • 172Posts
    • 47Thanks
    Help1234
    Joiner broke worktop by hacking grooves with a saw
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 18, 8:38 PM
    Joiner broke worktop by hacking grooves with a saw 12th Mar 18 at 8:38 PM
    Hello,

    We are having a kitchen fitted. We have an oak worktop and we asked our joiner if he could put in 5 drainer grooves next to the sink. He spent about 3 hours doing this then came to tell me his saw had broke while he was doing it and caused damage to the wood in the process which wasnít repairable. I have therefore ordered a new worktop. Heís due to start again with it tomorrow but I am worried. The grooves he created before this happened are extremely deep and not completely equal/identical. I have since googled this and have seen people create much better grooves - the kind I am after not using a saw but instead using this sander thing called a router.

    I am really worried what should I say to him? Should I ask him to buy this equipment? Im sure he will refuse or make me pay for it. Iím stuck currently with half a kitchen in place.
Page 1
    • pramsay13
    • By pramsay13 12th Mar 18, 8:52 PM
    • 363 Posts
    • 797 Thanks
    pramsay13
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 8:52 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 8:52 PM
    3 hours?
    What kind of saw was he using?
    I assume oak worktops aren't particularly cheap so you should make sure you will be happy with the quality of work.
    Why not show him the kind you mean on a screen and see what he says?
    If he can't manage get him to fit the workshop and get someone else in to do the grooves later.
    • z1a
    • By z1a 12th Mar 18, 8:58 PM
    • 1,251 Posts
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    z1a
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 8:58 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 8:58 PM
    Yep, definitely a router needed, can't imagine how he thought it would look good with any kind of saw.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 12th Mar 18, 9:00 PM
    • 25,000 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:00 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:00 PM
    Any carpenter should have a router. I'm amazed that he doesn't. Where did you find him?

    Oak worktops are a royal pain, you know. I wouldn't be draining anything anywhere near them or you'll be buying yet another worktop.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 12th Mar 18, 9:06 PM
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    Aylesbury Duck
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:06 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:06 PM
    Yes, the two questions that came to my mind were: A saw to create drainage grooves? And: An oak draining board?
    Please forgive the deliberate omission of apostrophes on some posts whilst I await MSE to do something about the daft codes that appear in their place when typing on certain devices.
    • Ruski
    • By Ruski 12th Mar 18, 9:14 PM
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    Ruski
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:14 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:14 PM
    He should also use a jig to give a slope to the grooves otherwise they'll just keep standing water in them

    I assume you have an undermount sink / belfast sink : drip grooves should also be cut into the underside of the worktop around the aperture - has he done this??

    HTH

    Russ
    Perfection takes time: don't expect miracles in a day
    • Help1234
    • By Help1234 12th Mar 18, 9:27 PM
    • 172 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    Help1234
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:27 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:27 PM
    OK I think our plan is just get him to finish the kitchen and not put any grooves in this new worktop.

    Please can you clarify what you mean by:
    Drip grooves should also be cut into the underside of the worktop around the aperture.

    I!!!8217;m not sure what this means or how to check but I expect the answer is no.
    • flashg67
    • By flashg67 12th Mar 18, 9:56 PM
    • 2,457 Posts
    • 1,609 Thanks
    flashg67
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:56 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 18, 9:56 PM
    Agree - I'd ask him to leave it alone. Can't believe he tried to cut them by hand. I'm just an averagely keen DIYer and I have a router - sure it wasn't more than £30. Does need a jig to slope the grooves too.

    Google 'worktop drip groove' will give you the general idea. You may have seen them on exterior window sills too
    • Help1234
    • By Help1234 12th Mar 18, 10:10 PM
    • 172 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    Help1234
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 18, 10:10 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 18, 10:10 PM
    Here are the pics





    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 12th Mar 18, 10:14 PM
    • 25,000 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    Was he trying to dig for Australia?
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 12th Mar 18, 10:23 PM
    • 2,456 Posts
    • 1,295 Thanks
    the_r_sole
    wow, I'm pretty awful at diy, but I reckon I could have had a better go than that!
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 12th Mar 18, 10:29 PM
    • 4,153 Posts
    • 8,653 Thanks
    DaftyDuck
    In fairness () they do appear to have been done by a router.

    Equally, in balance, he must have been high or drunk at the time!

    Those are absolutely AWFUL!

    Mind you, the overhang is wrong, the edging is dreadful... the worktop should be treated before taps are installed...

    The list is endless!
    Last edited by DaftyDuck; 12-03-2018 at 10:31 PM.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 12th Mar 18, 10:51 PM
    • 1,842 Posts
    • 2,484 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    Wow. Less draining slots and more like plate racks!
    Please forgive the deliberate omission of apostrophes on some posts whilst I await MSE to do something about the daft codes that appear in their place when typing on certain devices.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 12th Mar 18, 11:46 PM
    • 2,057 Posts
    • 1,383 Thanks
    Tom99
    Do without the grooves and just use a large tray to drain onto. Is he paying for the worktop he ruined?
    Last edited by Tom99; 13-03-2018 at 3:58 AM.
    • Debbie Savard
    • By Debbie Savard 13th Mar 18, 7:02 PM
    • 358 Posts
    • 305 Thanks
    Debbie Savard
    Cor blimey, you've had the cowboys in and no mistake guv'nor!
    • z1a
    • By z1a 13th Mar 18, 7:12 PM
    • 1,251 Posts
    • 1,191 Thanks
    z1a
    So he did have a router, he's just incompetent with it.
    • Jackmydad
    • By Jackmydad 13th Mar 18, 7:14 PM
    • 2,464 Posts
    • 7,341 Thanks
    Jackmydad
    Looks like the work of a "joiner" to me. . .
    I expect my friend who is a joiner would have choice comments to make here.
    Grooves should be "half round", and should be sloped down to sink as said.
    I'm far from expert with fitting kitchens, but that ain't right as shown.
    I do know about timber. I wouldn't want sapwood like that "white" showing on oak that was getting wet regularly, unless it really is completely sealed.
    FWIW, I believe that the old wooden draining boards were made from elm. Much more suitable for timber that gets wet.
    "Luck happens where hard work meets opportunity"
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 13th Mar 18, 11:10 PM
    • 2,057 Posts
    • 1,383 Thanks
    Tom99
    Ask him to pay for, or at least contribute, you must have shelled out at least a £100 for a replacement.
    He should have known he was incompetent at that job and should not even have tried to tackle it.
    • Ruski
    • By Ruski 14th Mar 18, 7:57 AM
    • 1,512 Posts
    • 890 Thanks
    Ruski
    Another thing to add is that the overhang into the sink should be greater as water shouldn't run onto the ceramic, rather drip (remember the comment about the underside drip edge) into the sink.

    HTH

    Russ
    Perfection takes time: don't expect miracles in a day
    • Furts
    • By Furts 14th Mar 18, 8:25 AM
    • 4,219 Posts
    • 2,737 Thanks
    Furts
    But it could all be a blessing in disguise for OP. To an extent it depends on who purchased the worktop - was it OP or was it supply and fit? When the worktop is replaced this time buy something decent and buy something appropriate.

    The worktop was never going to be satisfactory - look at the timber, look at the quality and then concede it is absolute dross. Add to this the concept of grooves - how was OP expecting these to remain sealed and (slightly) durable.

    Oak draining boards like this are an absolutely barmy concept. A reality check should kick in here - would consumers line out a wet room with poor quality, engineered, sap wood oak? Highly unlikely because of water causing swelling, discolouring, and all the associated problems with sealing and rotting. So why do people think this oak should be used as a draining board? The problems here are even greater than a wet room - think algae, think germs, think contamination of utensils, and food.

    Then if I have not convinced folks answer a fundamental - would a professional chef fit poor quality engineered oak draining boards in a kitchen? Of course not!
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