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  • FIRST POST
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 12th Mar 18, 3:26 PM
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    50Twuncle
    Does the house count ?
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 18, 3:26 PM
    Does the house count ? 12th Mar 18 at 3:26 PM
    If I ever had to go "into a home" and my wife was left, living in our home (Which is in MY name) - would she be expected to sell up to pay for my continued care (after my personal savings had been used up) or does the value of the house get disregarded because she still lives in it ?
    Also - would I be correct in thinking that my wifes personal savings are added to mine to calculate any contribution that I would have to make ?
    A similar question also - should my wife have to go into care ....
    Last edited by 50Twuncle; 12-03-2018 at 3:37 PM.
Page 1
    • Catswhiska
    • By Catswhiska 12th Mar 18, 3:41 PM
    • 60 Posts
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    Catswhiska
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 3:41 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 3:41 PM
    If a spouse I!!!8217;d still living in the marital home it is disregarded. Only savings and income of the person in care can be counted towards care cost. Spouse savings are their own
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 12th Mar 18, 4:02 PM
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    50Twuncle
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:02 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:02 PM
    If a spouse I!!!8217;d still living in the marital home it is disregarded. Only savings and income of the person in care can be counted towards care cost. Spouse savings are their own
    Originally posted by Catswhiska
    Thanks - does it matter that the property is not in joint names - it is only in my name ...?
    • Catswhiska
    • By Catswhiska 12th Mar 18, 4:08 PM
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    Catswhiska
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:08 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:08 PM
    If it is the marital home then I donít think it can be touched. Especially if itís been that for a good few years
    • Catswhiska
    • By Catswhiska 12th Mar 18, 4:10 PM
    • 60 Posts
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    Catswhiska
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:10 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:10 PM
    If a dependant relative lived in a house that he didn!!!8217;t actually own and was over 60 then the house would be disregarded as well. So that!!!8217;s a similar situation ( for instance offspring of the couple)
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 12th Mar 18, 4:44 PM
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    50Twuncle
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:44 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:44 PM
    If a spouse I!!!8217;d still living in the marital home it is disregarded. Only savings and income of the person in care can be counted towards care cost. Spouse savings are their own
    Originally posted by Catswhiska
    If a dependant relative lived in a house that he didn!!!8217;t actually own and was over 60 then the house would be disregarded as well. So that!!!8217;s a similar situation ( for instance offspring of the couple)
    Originally posted by Catswhiska
    Why just "over 60" ?
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
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    TELLIT01
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    I don't believe the OP's wife could be forced to sell but the council could potentially register an interest in the property if payment of care costs was deferred. I believe they would become payable if and when the house was finally sold.
    Worth checking into putting her name on the deeds and the difference between joint ownership and ownership in common. One means that both effectively own all the house, the other that each owns half. It's advisable to take formal legal advice on the best way to protect the property.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 12th Mar 18, 5:01 PM
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    lisyloo
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 18, 5:01 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 18, 5:01 PM
    Why just "over 60" ?
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    Those are the rules/laws
    I guess someone younger and not a spouse or disabled is not considered a dependent. Bear in mind that taxpayers pay for this so it has to be fair (thre no magic money tree :-)

    Your home also wont be counted if its still occupied by:
    • your partner or former partner, unless they are estranged from you
    • your estranged or divorced partner IF they are also a lone parent
    • a relative who is aged 60 or over
    • a child of yours aged under 18
    • a relative who is disabled.
    but as she's your wife it doens't look like there is an age criteria.
    https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/social-care-and-support-where-to-start/paying-for-care-support/do-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-care/


    You will become financially seperate for benefits purposes.
    It would only be YOUR savings that count towards your care.


    If YOUR capital and income is above £23,250 youre likely to have to pay your care fees.


    If you have a joint account and shared capital it would be assumed to be 50/50.


    If you were LA funded then you'd have to pay your income (state pension, pensons credit, attendance allowance) minus £25 to the care home and you're being fed, accomodated etc. That £25 is for personal items like clothing.


    Note that even if you are LA funded that your wife (or you if it's that way round) would need to fund the propery costs herself. So if she's living alone and has to pay electricity, council tax, insurance etc. then all those bills would fall to her alone rather than both of you.


    Anything else feel free to ask. My MIL is in a nursng home, so I've been through it all recently.


    Note that you can have 4 (of 1 hour) care visits per day before you go into a home so this can be an option. These are about £15 but can also be funded by the LA under similar rules.
    So if you need help say getting in and out of bed and need two visits a day, then £30 per day is cheaper than a nursing home. We have found social services to be very helpful because they want to keep people well so will supply carers at £15 per hour rather than having people in nursing homes at £800 per week or worse still hospital at £3000 per week. They understand that keeping peopel well is cheaper (and obviously better for the individual).
    My MIL also went to a day center for a while. This was free (apart from £5 for lunch) and transport was provided and free too.
    Last edited by lisyloo; 12-03-2018 at 5:05 PM.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 12th Mar 18, 5:11 PM
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    lisyloo
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 18, 5:11 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 18, 5:11 PM
    I would recomment getting POA in place (there are 2 - one for finance and one for care). This would be very helpful for family especially if you are become incapable mentally.

    Unfortunately my MIL would not agree and is now not capable of making decisions. We are likely to have to get deputyship to sell her house and because she can't agree we will have to have a court hearing and the cost is about £1000 AND will delay us selling the house during which time we have to pay service charges/ground rent even if empty.

    Getting POA in place in good time will help your family and those around you who have to make decisions.
    Last edited by lisyloo; 12-03-2018 at 5:15 PM.
    • needmorehelp
    • By needmorehelp 12th Mar 18, 5:26 PM
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    needmorehelp
    Not wishing to Hijack the others persons thread or anything, but rather than start another thread along the same lines, do the same rules apply if the couple have been living together for a long number or years, and the house is in the mans name?
    Thanks.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 12th Mar 18, 5:34 PM
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    lisyloo
    Not wishing to Hijack the others persons thread or anything, but rather than start another thread along the same lines, do the same rules apply if the couple have been living together for a long number or years, and the house is in the mans name?
    Thanks.
    Originally posted by needmorehelp
    I would say yes, because of this

    your partner or former partner, unless they are estranged from you
    however surely the best way to get your partnership officially recognised it to get married? Ken Dodd recently married his long term partner and she won't now have to pay inheritance tax.
    The above says partner not "spouse or registered civil partner" so I would intepret that to include someone you live with as a partner (I was going to say as man & wife but I guess it also extend to woman & wife and man & husband).
    Last edited by lisyloo; 12-03-2018 at 5:40 PM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Mar 18, 5:43 PM
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    TELLIT01

    however surely the best way to get your partnership officially recognised it to get married? Ken Dodd recently married his long term partner and she won't now have to pay inheritance tax.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Good for Doddy. He managed to keep the tax man at bay right down to his final breath. I'm sure he's up there singing "Happiness" right now.
    • venison
    • By venison 12th Mar 18, 8:44 PM
    • 2,048 Posts
    • 2,192 Thanks
    venison
    Personally I suspect there might be a number of reasons to transfer the property into joint names and both make a will.
    Ex Board Guide
    • Danday
    • By Danday 12th Mar 18, 11:55 PM
    • 354 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    Danday
    If I ever had to go "into a home" and my wife was left, living in our home (Which is in MY name) - would she be expected to sell up to pay for my continued care (after my personal savings had been used up) or does the value of the house get disregarded because she still lives in it ?
    Also - would I be correct in thinking that my wifes personal savings are added to mine to calculate any contribution that I would have to make ?
    A similar question also - should my wife have to go into care ....
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    A very good question which certainly must resonate with a lot more people. People of a certain age seemed to arrange their matrimonial financial affairs in this way. The man worked, he paid the mortgage which was in his name so were the deeds. In fact I will go back even further to when a woman was not allowed to have a mortgage!
    Anyhow, I am in a similar position, my wife owns the home we have lived in for many years as a result of a decision I made back when to make sure she had plenty of security. She paid cash for it when houses were as cheap as tents are today!
    I honestly do wonder if they could charge the home if I went in to residential care. It's not my property, never has been. Would be good to get confirmation of this.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 13th Mar 18, 1:04 AM
    • 9,037 Posts
    • 5,387 Thanks
    teddysmum
    A very good question which certainly must resonate with a lot more people. People of a certain age seemed to arrange their matrimonial financial affairs in this way. The man worked, he paid the mortgage which was in his name so were the deeds. In fact I will go back even further to when a woman was not allowed to have a mortgage!
    Anyhow, I am in a similar position, my wife owns the home we have lived in for many years as a result of a decision I made back when to make sure she had plenty of security. She paid cash for it when houses were as cheap as tents are today!
    I honestly do wonder if they could charge the home if I went in to residential care. It's not my property, never has been. Would be good to get confirmation of this.
    Originally posted by Danday
    Our house is in my name and I asked the same question about the house being counted as all mine, leaving my husband nothing,should I go into care. Someone confirmed that the house would be considered as joint (I'd asked if we needed to put it in joint names) and gave a link to Age UK's advice, which confirms this.


    I however, the at home spouse or dependant went into care the house would be considered, half to fund each, but should that person move house, only their half plus a moving allowance is not considered.ie an amount under half the value can be used to pay for the residential care of the first person in care.


    For care, the one in care's income and savings are used until they reach the council help level,then at just over £14k is reached ,the council pays the lot (at the moment, anyway).


    As the person in care's charges are based on their calculated assets(less the house) the person at home will not be charged at a later date, unless they choose to move house (as above).
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 13th Mar 18, 8:06 AM
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    50Twuncle
    Thanks all - what about elderly relatives - if they ever moved in with us - do they consider just their personal savings for financing care or do they look at ours ?
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 13th Mar 18, 8:27 AM
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    lisyloo
    Personally I suspect there might be a number of reasons to transfer the property into joint names and both make a will.
    Originally posted by venison
    A will is a very good idea.
    It's not so straightforward with property.
    Joint has the advantage that if one dies then it passes to the other automatically without going throught the will. My MIL and FIL have everything joint so we won't need probate on first death as everything simply passes.
    With joint tenants you can pass 50% of a home to children on first death.
    This needs a solicitor to explain the pros and cons but one pro is protecting inheritance. I believe a trust is required to protect the survivor in their home. This needs proper legal advice and set up.
    Note that any planning needs to be done in advance.
    You can't give your money away as soon as you know you need a care home (or other state benefits) That's called deliberate deprivation.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 13th Mar 18, 8:29 AM
    • 21,834 Posts
    • 10,549 Thanks
    lisyloo
    Thanks all - what about elderly relatives - if they ever moved in with us - do they consider just their personal savings for financing care or do they look at ours ?
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    No-one else is expected to fund your care (not even your spouse), so it's only YOUR savings that count (your wifes are not included).
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 13th Mar 18, 8:35 AM
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    Mojisola
    With joint tenants you can pass 50% of a home to children on first death.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    You can only do this if the property is owned as tenants in common.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 13th Mar 18, 8:39 AM
    • 8,282 Posts
    • 1,957 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    A will is a very good idea.
    It's not so straightforward with property.
    Joint has the advantage that if one dies then it passes to the other automatically without going throught the will. My MIL and FIL have everything joint so we won't need probate on first death as everything simply passes.
    With joint tenants you can pass 50% of a home to children on first death.
    This needs a solicitor to explain the pros and cons but one pro is protecting inheritance. I believe a trust is required to protect the survivor in their home. This needs proper legal advice and set up.
    Note that any planning needs to be done in advance.
    You can't give your money away as soon as you know you need a care home (or other state benefits) That's called deliberate deprivation.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    We have had wills - for 15 years
    But (and its a big but) - I am disabled and expected to deteriorate in the future - and my wife may not be able to cope with me - so I am just trying to get things straight now - while I still can
    (I am now 54 years old)
    Last edited by 50Twuncle; 13-03-2018 at 8:42 AM.
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