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    • smaryneedham
    • By smaryneedham 12th Mar 18, 10:52 AM
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    smaryneedham
    Do I have a claim to take to Small Claims Court?
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 18, 10:52 AM
    Do I have a claim to take to Small Claims Court? 12th Mar 18 at 10:52 AM
    I purchased an automatic car on 12 Feb which turned out to be semi-automatic. I asked the salesperson where P and D were on the gearstick and was told that Toyota have E and N instead. I asked what E stood for and was told "easy" it actually turns out to be Eco. I wanted an automatic and think that the salesperson should have a modicum of knowledge of the car she is selling and that because I wasn't told about the "semi" bit that I was mis-sold. I have contacted the showroom who have sent a final letter refusing a full refund because "Most automatics have a semi-automatic mode which has the ability to be driven fully automatic which your vehicle can do." This response makes no sense as yes a fully automatic can be driven semi but not the other way around. So as they have given a final response, and are not part of any ombudsman scheme am I likely to win a case in Smalls Claims Court?
Page 1
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 12th Mar 18, 11:57 AM
    • 8,044 Posts
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    Owain Moneysaver
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 11:57 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 11:57 AM
    Before going to court, try Trading Standards and the vehicle manufacturer, if you bought it from a franchised dealer.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Mar 18, 12:17 PM
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    DoaM
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 12:17 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 12:17 PM
    Most vehicles which offer a semi-automatic mode (e.g. "flappy paddles" gear change) also offer a full auto mode.

    Which exact model did you purchase?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • smaryneedham
    • By smaryneedham 12th Mar 18, 12:40 PM
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    smaryneedham
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 12:40 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 12:40 PM
    It is a Toyota Aygo purchased from Carshop which is a national car warehouse. It has no paddles, just a gear change which only works in semi automatic. This means having to find the bite point when hill start which I really didn't want to have to do. Minor issues I know but I wanted to let my daughter use it who only has an automatic licence so this is very different to her. I paid 6700 for it and think it is too much for a car that wasn't as described. I will try trading standards Owain Moneysaver
    • reason2
    • By reason2 12th Mar 18, 1:48 PM
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    reason2
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 1:48 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 1:48 PM
    The aygo can be driven in fully auto mode...

    usually there is an A or E etc where the car is in full auto and then you can move it further to a semi auto and change yourself.

    Id be stunned if there was a model that didnt have full auto mode
    • reason2
    • By reason2 12th Mar 18, 1:55 PM
    • 230 Posts
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    reason2
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 1:55 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 1:55 PM
    looking at the aygo gearstick there is an M to the right which is the semi auto mode, + to go up a gear - to go down, to the left is an E, which is automatic, above that an N for neutral and and R for reverse.

    If it isnt working in E, then it sounds like a fault.
    But also remember, in manual we tend to change gear at 2-2.5k revs and fully auto will go up to 4-4.5k
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Mar 18, 2:01 PM
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    DoaM
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 18, 2:01 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 18, 2:01 PM
    But also remember, in manual we tend to change gear at 2-2.5k revs and fully auto will go up to 4-4.5k
    Originally posted by reason2
    It'll actually depend on load on the engine/gearing ... gentle acceleration on the flat (or slight incline) would likely see gear changes happening at lower revs versus hard acceleration.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • bris
    • By bris 12th Mar 18, 3:55 PM
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    bris
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 18, 3:55 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 18, 3:55 PM
    No you won't win as it is a fully automatic car. Having a semi automatic feature is like nearly every automatic car on the market now.


    You comment about the bite point on a hill is a really poor excuse. You should always apply the hand brake on a hill no matter what kind of car you drive. Perhaps you could give your daughter more lessons on hill starts to cure the problem?
    Last edited by bris; 12-03-2018 at 3:57 PM.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Mar 18, 4:14 PM
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    DoaM
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:14 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:14 PM
    Many vehicles now have electronic brakes, so you don't really have the same level of control for releasing the "hand" brake. That said they're usually quite good at automatically releasing the brake when you pull away - provided you apply enough revs.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • smaryneedham
    • By smaryneedham 12th Mar 18, 5:39 PM
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    smaryneedham
    There is E which is what i put it into to drive. According to Halfords they told me that the gearbox is manual with only semi automatic function. I have no clue about gearboxes but assumed they would be right? I have driven automatics for years and have never had the rolling back on a hill with an automatic before so I am finding it awkward and a bit scary when drivers pull right behind me in early morning traffic on the hill into work.
    • smaryneedham
    • By smaryneedham 12th Mar 18, 5:44 PM
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    smaryneedham
    It was Halfords who advised it is a manual gearbox with a semi-automatic function. Yes my daughter could re-learn but my point is that I thought was buying a fully automatic car which the salesperson knew. This isn't really the issue. The car was advertised as "automatic" and at no point was I advised otherwise. I have paid money for something I didn't want which is why I feel a full refund is in order
    • TonyMMM
    • By TonyMMM 12th Mar 18, 5:47 PM
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    TonyMMM
    Halfords are not the people to ask for advice on cars ...


    It is an automatic.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 12th Mar 18, 6:26 PM
    • 15,717 Posts
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    pinkshoes
    It was Halfords who advised it is a manual gearbox with a semi-automatic function. Yes my daughter could re-learn but my point is that I thought was buying a fully automatic car which the salesperson knew. This isn't really the issue. The car was advertised as "automatic" and at no point was I advised otherwise. I have paid money for something I didn't want which is why I feel a full refund is in order
    Originally posted by smaryneedham
    Halfords????

    They can't even figure out how to fit a headlight in a Ford KA!!

    Take it to a proper garage for an answer then if THEY say it is not automatic, go back to where you bought it from
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • lewishardwick
    • By lewishardwick 12th Mar 18, 6:31 PM
    • 542 Posts
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    lewishardwick
    Have you asked TOYOTA?

    I'd think they'd be able to tell you.

    Pr how about reading the owners manual? Either hard copy, or online if you don't have one.
    • meer53
    • By meer53 12th Mar 18, 6:39 PM
    • 9,151 Posts
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    meer53
    I have a manual Aygo, it has Hill Start Assist which stops the car from rolling back when moving off uphill, i thought most models had this ?
    • LadyDee
    • By LadyDee 12th Mar 18, 6:56 PM
    • 2,849 Posts
    • 2,988 Thanks
    LadyDee
    There is E which is what i put it into to drive. According to Halfords they told me that the gearbox is manual with only semi automatic function. I have no clue about gearboxes but assumed they would be right? I have driven automatics for years and have never had the rolling back on a hill with an automatic before so I am finding it awkward and a bit scary when drivers pull right behind me in early morning traffic on the hill into work.
    Originally posted by smaryneedham
    I've had my Aygo now for 7 years and I LOVE it! I've never had a need to use the manual mode, but I think if you ever have to climb/descend a steep hill or drive on an icy road I'm told it's very useful to have the manual ability.

    You might feel you've been mis-sold but don't be in too much of a hurry to reject what is a fabulous little car. I hope you'll come to love it - two of my friends followed my lead and bought an Aygo and they are just as thrilled with theirs.
    • smaryneedham
    • By smaryneedham 12th Mar 18, 7:01 PM
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    smaryneedham
    The manual says "Multi-mode manual transmission"
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Mar 18, 7:53 PM
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    DoaM
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimode_manual_transmission

    http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/the-toyota-multi-mode-transmission-design-and-function/
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 13th Mar 18, 9:13 PM
    • 8,044 Posts
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    Owain Moneysaver
    The critical point here is is the vehicle classed as an automatic for the purposes of driving on an automatic-only driving licence?

    If you asked for "an automatic" and it can't be driven on an automatic-only licence then, regardless of what the manufacturer or dealer calls their magicautoshiftyboxy techology, it's not automatic and not fit for the purpose for which it was purchased.

    The best people to ask will be either/both Toyota or DVLA.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • MH1927
    • By MH1927 13th Mar 18, 9:55 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MH1927
    MMT Toyota's do not have a clutch pedal or lever.

    Automatics are defined as a vehicle where there is no clutch pedal or lever that the driver can operate manually.

    You have a vehicle that you can drive on an Auto only licence, your chances at court are ZERO
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