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  • FIRST POST
    • markyyyyyy
    • By markyyyyyy 11th Mar 18, 5:49 PM
    • 63Posts
    • 9Thanks
    markyyyyyy
    from pulling out our house sale to an extension
    • #1
    • 11th Mar 18, 5:49 PM
    from pulling out our house sale to an extension 11th Mar 18 at 5:49 PM
    As some of you may know from previous posts, we have had to pull out of our house purchase due to restricted covanants on the property...

    we have decided to stay put and extend our property instead

    We currently have a 3 bed semi, with a driveway along the front and side of the house. What we are proposing is extending out 2.6metres all the way across the back, and 1.8m out, alongside the house (to allow enough soace to get a side gate to access the garden)

    Do most builders quote for the bare minimum only - i.e just for the brickwork and roof, or do they tyoically include doors and windows? Does the quote for the extension typically include the timber / concrete floor aswell?

    I will obviously get the full quote and all details written before persuing with anything.

    Just wanted to get an idea of what questions i should ask the builders and architecht when they come around?

    Thanks

    Mark
    Savings aim for 2012: 5000 = 416.60 per month

    Current Savings excluding M&G Investments (18/11/11):
    Britannia: 5334

    Total Aim for 31/12/12: 10,334
Page 1
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 11th Mar 18, 6:17 PM
    • 25,007 Posts
    • 68,490 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:17 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:17 PM
    The outside walls take 30cm off your measurements. That sounds like an expensive but not very useful extension. You still need to be a slave to location of *most* of the existing external walls.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • markyyyyyy
    • By markyyyyyy 11th Mar 18, 6:37 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    markyyyyyy
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:37 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:37 PM
    The outside walls take 30cm off your measurements. That sounds like an expensive but not very useful extension. You still need to be a slave to location of *most* of the existing external walls.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl

    we currently have a separate kitchen (small) and a large livingroom/diner.... we want to open up the back into a kitchen diner and add a utility room at the side.... also puting a stud wall in between our current living room diner

    by going out 2.8m out the back and 1.8 down the side, it will make a decent size kitchen diner by my measurements?

    what do you mean by being a slave to most of the existing walls?

    in total we will be adding approx 30 square metres
    Savings aim for 2012: 5000 = 416.60 per month

    Current Savings excluding M&G Investments (18/11/11):
    Britannia: 5334

    Total Aim for 31/12/12: 10,334
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 11th Mar 18, 6:47 PM
    • 25,007 Posts
    • 68,490 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:47 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:47 PM
    You plan to knock out much of the existing walls by the sound of it as any room that is 1.5m or 2.3m wide is relatively useless. If you go 2.3m internally on the back you still need piers which will impede somewhat on the room - it won't be a perfect open square.

    The most important elements of your house are the corners. They're not going anywhere fast without large expense. So your utility hides on the side of the room maintaining the corner of the house.

    Draw me a picture. Existing and proposed.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • markyyyyyy
    • By markyyyyyy 11th Mar 18, 7:04 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    markyyyyyy
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 18, 7:04 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 18, 7:04 PM
    You plan to knock out much of the existing walls by the sound of it as any room that is 1.5m or 2.3m wide is relatively useless. If you go 2.3m internally on the back you still need piers which will impede somewhat on the room - it won't be a perfect open square.

    The most important elements of your house are the corners. They're not going anywhere fast without large expense. So your utility hides on the side of the room maintaining the corner of the house.

    Draw me a picture. Existing and proposed.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    here you go..

    https://imgur.com/a/gqaxT
    Savings aim for 2012: 5000 = 416.60 per month

    Current Savings excluding M&G Investments (18/11/11):
    Britannia: 5334

    Total Aim for 31/12/12: 10,334
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 11th Mar 18, 7:20 PM
    • 25,007 Posts
    • 68,490 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 18, 7:20 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 18, 7:20 PM
    I love that! It looks identical to something my husband draws!

    Okay, so the original back corner of your house is incredibly important. To support it elsewhere is incredibly expensive and difficult. Not just because of the gravitational downward force, but also because of potential 'waggle' created in the structure (I'm not an SE!) If I've I've interpreted your drawing correctly, you have some serious engineering there to do. You won't have many/any friends who will have done that...
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • markyyyyyy
    • By markyyyyyy 11th Mar 18, 7:25 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    markyyyyyy
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 18, 7:25 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 18, 7:25 PM
    I love that! It looks identical to something my husband draws!

    Okay, so the original back corner of your house is incredibly important. To support it elsewhere is incredibly expensive and difficult. Not just because of the gravitational downward force, but also because of potential 'waggle' created in the structure (I'm not an SE!) If I've I've interpreted your drawing correctly, you have some serious engineering there to do. You won't have many/any friends who will have done that...
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    ha ha , yes - you can tell i'm not an architect by my drawings.

    We would keeo the supportive pillar in the kitchen- we were planning on intergrating it into the design somehow or another (potentially using the corner as a small island?)- i suppose the architect may be able to advise whether this is feasible?
    Savings aim for 2012: 5000 = 416.60 per month

    Current Savings excluding M&G Investments (18/11/11):
    Britannia: 5334

    Total Aim for 31/12/12: 10,334
    • dimbo61
    • By dimbo61 11th Mar 18, 8:22 PM
    • 9,878 Posts
    • 5,313 Thanks
    dimbo61
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:22 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:22 PM
    https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/17/extensions

    The important things to consider!
    You can extend up to 6 metres on the back of your semi.( Single storey)
    You can extend up to half the width of your house at the side if you have the space? ( single storey)
    1.8m at the side is a complete waste of time and money.
    If your going to extend at the side GO BIG so right to the boundary ( taking into account gutters).

    If you have the space and a Big rear garden then 4/5/6 meters out Not 2.6.

    This is all under Permitted development until May 2019.
    Trying to get Planning permission might be a lot harder
    Major works so have 80-100K ready
    Last edited by dimbo61; 11-03-2018 at 8:25 PM.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 11th Mar 18, 8:26 PM
    • 25,007 Posts
    • 68,490 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:26 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:26 PM
    Yes, your architect can advise and hopefully advise you on some idea of cost. Primarily, I agree with dimbo above and hope that your architect is pro-active and helps you find the optimum outcome for space and price.

    Going for Planning Permission over Permitted Development isn't such a big deal and I would never avoid seeking PO if the result was getting what I needed, but it is likely that you have much more in the way of Permitted Development Rights than you plan to use currently.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 11-03-2018 at 8:33 PM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • ashe
    • By ashe 11th Mar 18, 8:29 PM
    • 530 Posts
    • 367 Thanks
    ashe
    This is largely going to be a sunken cost, it will increase the value of your home but if you need to spend 80-100k on the extension its unlikely to extend the value by anywhere near that amount.

    Your best bet would be to find a new place without restrictive covenants.
    • markyyyyyy
    • By markyyyyyy 11th Mar 18, 8:32 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    markyyyyyy
    i dont understand where 80 to 100k comes from.

    the builder came round for an initial look and said a very rough cost for the extension is 30k. I live in Leeds.
    If we had the space alongside the house to go further, then i would - we need to leave 1 metre ish for a side gate or we wont be able to access the rear of the property.

    The garden is only about 40 square metres as it is so we don't want to eat into it too much

    I dont understand why you think that an additional 4 x 1.8 metres on the side and (8x3m) across the back isnt going to change the size that much?

    It seems a cheaper alternative to moving?
    Savings aim for 2012: 5000 = 416.60 per month

    Current Savings excluding M&G Investments (18/11/11):
    Britannia: 5334

    Total Aim for 31/12/12: 10,334
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 11th Mar 18, 8:37 PM
    • 25,007 Posts
    • 68,490 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    The extension is getting bigger as we speak!

    I have no idea where 80-100k comes from either but I'll tell you right now that the builder is out of his tiny head if he thinks what you describe costs 30k. 1000 a metre does not exist anymore, has not for a long time, never included VAT and was based on square, basic, two storey new builds, not single storey extnsions with an exceptionally high proportion of new wall to gained space plus a large amount of knock through steelwork and renovation to the existing ground floor. You need something over 20 linear metres of footing to gain 30 metres of space. That isn't just lacking in economy of scale, it's backwards on the scale.

    Imagine, could build a square shaped, 200sqm house with 40 linear metres of footings! They are never, never going to cost the same per square metre and your house incurs VAT on the work too.

    Do not get sucked into ideas of cheap builders as you will end up half way into a project having spent what you thought was the full budget. Steer well clear.

    Your post really belongs in the "In My Home" board as it doesn't relate to home buying, it relates to building.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 11-03-2018 at 8:46 PM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • markyyyyyy
    • By markyyyyyy 11th Mar 18, 8:42 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    markyyyyyy
    The extension is getting bigger as we speak!

    I have no idea where 80-100k comes from either but I'll tell you right now that the builder is out of his tiny head if he thinks what you describe costs 30k. 1000 a metre does not exist anymore, has not for a long time, never included VAT and was based on square, basic, two storey new builds, not single storey extnsiins with an exceptionally high propertion of new wall to gained space plus a large amount of knock through steelwork and renovation to the existing ground floor.

    Do not get sucked into ideas of cheap builders as you will end up half way into a project having spent what you thought was the full budget. Steer well clear.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl

    The extension isn't increasing.... Maybe i didn't explain clear enough.

    As the house currently stands, we are going to extend 3 metres out the back of the house, 8 metres across.

    Alond the side of the property (ie. wraparound) we are extending 1.8m width, and 4 metres in length.
    Savings aim for 2012: 5000 = 416.60 per month

    Current Savings excluding M&G Investments (18/11/11):
    Britannia: 5334

    Total Aim for 31/12/12: 10,334
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 11th Mar 18, 8:48 PM
    • 25,007 Posts
    • 68,490 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    The extension isn't increasing.... Maybe i didn't explain clear enough.

    As the house currently stands, we are going to extend 3 metres out the back of the house, 8 metres across.

    Alond the side of the property (ie. wraparound) we are extending 1.8m width, and 4 metres in length.
    Originally posted by markyyyyyy
    It started at 2.6, then 2.8, then 3 metres. It doesn't matter as you gain better value the larger it gets but you've ignored the main point. It is not going to cost 30k. Do not get sucked in, do not entertain that builder. You will be back on these boards with an incomplete building project and no money left.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • dimbo61
    • By dimbo61 11th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
    • 9,878 Posts
    • 5,313 Thanks
    dimbo61
    "We currently have a 3 bed semi, with a driveway along the front and side of the house. What we are proposing is extending out 2.6metres all the way across the back, and 1.8m out, alongside the house (to allow enough soace to get a side gate to access the garden)"

    " As the house currently stands, we are going to extend 3 metres out the back of the house, 8 metres across.

    Along the side of the property (ie. wraparound) we are extending 1.8m width, and 4 metres in length "

    Now using metric often confuses me.
    If you build 1.8 meters out at the side you end up with 5.90551 FOOT
    so less than 6 foot extension.
    You would need to consider carefully what you would do with this extra 6 foot along the side of the property.
    Now 9/10 feet would make a good downstairs shower room.
    You only have a small rear garden so 6 meter rear extension would fill the rear garden.
    I had built a side and rear extension a few years ago which went out about 9 feet out at the side and 20 feet at the rear and it cost about 80,000 in 2012.
    Big job with the corner of the house removed and lots of steel work.
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