Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • IcantSeeClearly
    • By IcantSeeClearly 11th Mar 18, 1:00 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    IcantSeeClearly
    Forced to pay for company loss?
    • #1
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:00 AM
    Forced to pay for company loss? 11th Mar 18 at 1:00 AM
    Hello all!

    Long time lurker, first time poster

    So, I have very little knowledge on worker rights and I have embarked on a search to help improve my knowledge in this area, so hopefully this'll be a good start!

    I have received an email last week about employees making calls to clients from personal mobiles, from what I understand the phones that are used at our workplace are VOIP based, a lot of the time this causes issues when trying to speak to clients so people make use of means by dialing from their personal mobile, however these are call recording lines. Now here is the thing. the email also states that if the company was to go to through litigation with a client, recorded calls will be there for evidence to aid them during the course of the legal action.

    I can 100% agree to this and I have absolutely no issues with this, it's this next part that gets me.

    It's mentioned that if they cannot retrieve this information they will ask the staff member that was dealing with the client and making the calls to attend court to provide evidence 'as an individual' even if we are no longer working from the company?

    Is that right? can we be liable and be forced to attend court? even if no longer working for the company?

    Lastly, the email mentions that if evidence isn't able to be provided by the staff member, all loss of earnings will be passed onto that individual?!

    We've been asked to read/confirm and reply to the email by a certain timeframe. I have failed to do this as I would like to know my options, can I be forced to agree? if I fail to agree will I be in a position where I could lose my job? The thing I'm worried about the most here is being liable for these losses.

    Many thanks in advance for reading this post and sticking it to the end! I'll appreciate it if anyone can shed some light on this subject, apologies if I'm not clear on certain areas, ask and I'll try and clear it up
Page 1
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Mar 18, 1:13 AM
    • 38,500 Posts
    • 35,158 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:13 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:13 AM
    I'll leave others to comment on the actual legal issues, although I think you have little to worry about, but there is one very simple way to avoid it.

    Use The Company Provided Phone, Not Your Own.

    Whatever the issues with them, they will only be sorted out if people flag up the issues and stop using their own phones.

    I don't have a company mobile (don't need one), but I cannot conceive of any situation in which I'd regularly use my own mobile for work purposes. It's incredibly unprofessional IMO. How do you set boundaries if you're using your personal mobile to contact clients?

    And join a union. Don't tell me that the company doesn't have one / doesn't recognise one. Use the Union Finder tool to work out which one is most appropriate. Then if you ever do have an issue, you'll have someone to call on.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself ...
    Current projects: Poppies, mohair cardigan pattern arrived and going strong!
    • IcantSeeClearly
    • By IcantSeeClearly 11th Mar 18, 1:21 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    IcantSeeClearly
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:21 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:21 AM
    I personally, always use the work VOIP system to complete calls, this isn't really something that I know will cause me an issue and I intend to follow this rule without any qurals. I also agree that it is rather unprofessional, no debate with you there.

    The company does have a rather shady history however, I'm worried that they could easily fabricate a story about missing evidence to recoup their losses. It's certainly would not be the first time.

    EDIT: Nobody I know of is currently enrolled in a union here. I haven't seen any information about it anywhere at work and I'm VERY familiar with the building.

    I'm currently looking into different Unions, thank you very much for providing that link, it'll certainly be very useful to join one!
    Last edited by IcantSeeClearly; 11-03-2018 at 1:23 AM.
    • IcantSeeClearly
    • By IcantSeeClearly 11th Mar 18, 2:21 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    IcantSeeClearly
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 18, 2:21 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 18, 2:21 AM
    So after reading into the Employment Rights act of 1996 it states this:

    Section 13(b): the worker has previously signified in writing his agreement or consent to the making of the deduction.

    So I guess this is why it was requested to confirm the email.

    So theoretically, If I refuse to agree to the new terms, am I liable for dismissal?
    • prowla
    • By prowla 11th Mar 18, 5:05 AM
    • 9,746 Posts
    • 7,807 Thanks
    prowla
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 18, 5:05 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 18, 5:05 AM
    Just use the company phones.

    And report every disconnect & communication issue.

    Complain when a call is dropped.

    People using their own phones is a sticking plaster; the issue is the quality of the company's provided equipment.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 11th Mar 18, 11:55 AM
    • 2,500 Posts
    • 2,418 Thanks
    steampowered
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 18, 11:55 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 18, 11:55 AM
    [QUOTE=IcantSeeClearly;74004960]It's mentioned that if they cannot retrieve this information they will ask the staff member that was dealing with the client and making the calls to attend court to provide evidence 'as an individual' even if we are no longer working from the company?

    Is that right? can we be liable and be forced to attend court? even if no longer working for the company?

    Anyone who has evidence relevant to a court case can be required to attend court to give evidence. Regardless of whether you are still working there or not.

    In reality, any court order requiring you to attend court will require the employer to pay your expenses.

    Lastly, the email mentions that if evidence isn't able to be provided by the staff member, all loss of earnings will be passed onto that individual?!
    I think it would be almost impossible for an employer to prove that the reason they lost a case was lack of evidence. And it would be very difficult/expensive for them to pursue that after you've left their employment.
    Last edited by steampowered; 11-03-2018 at 12:02 PM.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Mar 18, 8:44 PM
    • 38,500 Posts
    • 35,158 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:44 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:44 PM
    So theoretically, If I refuse to agree to the new terms, am I liable for dismissal?
    Originally posted by IcantSeeClearly
    You possibly need to do a bit more than just not sign. If you carry on working without making it known that you are working 'under protest', then they can assume you have accepted the terms.

    How long have you been with this employer? If it's less than two years, it's easy to get rid of you, without having to give a reason, so not signing might place a target on your back.

    This is where a strong union membership can be useful: rather than you as an individual sticking your neck out, a group of you, backed by a union, can together stick your necks out.

    Anyone who has evidence relevant to a court case can be required to attend court to give evidence. Regardless of whether you are still working there or not.

    In reality, any court order requiring you to attend court will require the employer to pay your expenses.



    I think it would be almost impossible for an employer to prove that the reason they lost a case was lack of evidence. And it would be very difficult/expensive for them to pursue that after you've left their employment.
    Originally posted by steampowered
    This is what I was thinking when I first posted. More to the point, you have no obligation to inform any previous employer of any changes of address, so before they can require you to attend court or pursue you for losses, they've got to find you first.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself ...
    Current projects: Poppies, mohair cardigan pattern arrived and going strong!
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 11th Mar 18, 10:22 PM
    • 4,901 Posts
    • 5,256 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 10:22 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 10:22 PM
    My advice would be the same as given by Savvy Sue - use the company phones and only the company phones. It's the responsibility of the company to provide you with the equipment to do the job, and for them to suffer the consequences of failed calls etc. On that basis all the other questions are irrelevant.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

172Posts Today

1,879Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin