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  • FIRST POST
    • joe134
    • By joe134 10th Mar 18, 5:32 PM
    • 3,110Posts
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    joe134
    Re universal credit?
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:32 PM
    Re universal credit? 10th Mar 18 at 5:32 PM
    Hi Guys, need a bit of info please?
    My Grandaughter 24, is in receipt of UC for herself and her 6 month old son, my great grandchild.
    No dad living with her !
    She is not the most honest of people, and her figures etc do not tally with the Gov website about payment dates and amounts?
    I have paid her six month rental on a flat, upfront, plus another month as a bond, which is due for review soon.
    Trying to ask her about figures, is not proving fruitful, so need to confirm if she is being truthful, so I can
    decide whether to continue helping her, which I do not think she is.
    1. She says she gets paid every month on the 14th,one payment,but website says the 7 th?
    2. She says she only gets £231 , not £251, which is on the website, standard allowance,for herself, every month
    3.she says she gets £231 for Son, which website confirms.
    Born after April, 2017.
    4. It says her allowance. Rises at 25 , which is May, to £312, she says she does not know about this!
    Her rent is paid with her allowance, sons allowance, every month on the 14 th, not the 7 th,but denies getting a monthly statement , which website says she does. .
    The reason I ask this, is, that, they must pay a different amount monthly, if it is on the same date, because of the number of days vary, or am I wrong.?
    Sorry if this is long, but want to confirm if she is being forthright, or not, before I decide whether to continue helping her.
    I can just phone the DWP, but thought it would help me better on here.
    Appreciate any help with this sensitive issue, as great grandsons welfare is involved, the reason for me helping her in the first place, not the first time she has lied to me about money problems.
Page 1
    • huckster
    • By huckster 10th Mar 18, 6:11 PM
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    huckster
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 6:11 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 6:11 PM
    Re payment date, the UC assessment end date might be the 7th of the month and she gets paid a week later i.e 14th, so that may be correct.

    If she gets less than £251, perhaps she had an advance which is being paid via a deduction or there is another deduction being made.

    Do you know whether she is on Live service UC or Full service UC ?

    On Full service, they can print off a statement via their online account. With Live service job centre can provide a statement.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • joe134
    • By joe134 10th Mar 18, 7:07 PM
    • 3,110 Posts
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    joe134
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:07 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:07 PM
    Re payment date, the UC assessment end date might be the 7th of the month and she gets paid a week later i.e 14th, so that may be correct.

    If she gets less than £251, perhaps she had an advance which is being paid via a deduction or there is another deduction being made.

    Do you know whether she is on Live service UC or Full service UC ?

    On Full service, they can print off a statement via their online account. With Live service job centre can provide a statement.
    Originally posted by huckster
    Thanks for reply huckster, much appreciated.
    On the first issue, the date could be because of what you say, accept that.
    As for an advance, I do not know, but, would not be surprised!
    She definitely has not told me , when I asked her why she only gets £231, today, she said she has always only ever got that, from receiving it, a while now, at least 12 to 18 months plus ?
    I told her I would look into why, thinking she was being underpaid!
    What do they give advances for ? Is there a limit, being as she says she has always only had £231 since having it ?
    She has moved around a bit,and partner trouble,
    She is not very forthcoming, even when one tries to help her.
    As for being live or full, I am not sure, but she has had it a long time, Leeds ?
    I read on the UC site that they send a statement every month, of what it will be?
    She said she only had a letter stating what she would get, December last, when I paid her upfront rent.
    No monthly ones.
    E mail or post.?
    Thatí s the reason I prefer on here, before I ask her too many unwanted questions,
    Her parents will not help her.! Because of the lies.
    Always falls down to me, but, cannot continue bailing her out, if she is lying to me too, which she has in the past.
    • huckster
    • By huckster 10th Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    • 3,147 Posts
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    huckster
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    Think it is live service and statements are only available through Job centre.

    Advances are like loans from DWP, which are paid back gradually.

    Or it could be a sanction for not attending an appointment at the Job Centre and a deduction is being made.

    Or there is a debt being collected.

    Is she not entitled to housing costs being paid by DWP ? Is this Social rented sector provided through council or a private landlord arrangement ?

    Perhaps ask her to get the job centre to print off a statement of benefit she is being paid and tell her that you won't pay further rent, if you don't see it.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • bigbill
    • By bigbill 10th Mar 18, 8:12 PM
    • 743 Posts
    • 439 Thanks
    bigbill
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 8:12 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 8:12 PM
    If she is in a UC live service rather than a UC full service area she should consider stopping (Terminating) her on-going UC claim and claiming Income Support at a higher amount, Child Tax Credits both paid weekly and Housing Benefit instead, less hassle and once back on these she will remain on them until she is forced to change to UC which could be years down the line.

    Timing is important so she needs advice first?
    Last edited by bigbill; 10-03-2018 at 10:30 PM.
    • joe134
    • By joe134 10th Mar 18, 8:22 PM
    • 3,110 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    joe134
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 8:22 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 8:22 PM
    Think it is live service and statements are only available through Job centre.

    Advances are like loans from DWP, which are paid back gradually.

    Or it could be a sanction for not attending an appointment at the Job Centre and a deduction is being made.

    Or there is a debt being collected.

    Is she not entitled to housing costs being paid by DWP ? Is this Social rented sector provided through council or a private landlord arrangement ?

    Perhaps ask her to get the job centre to print off a statement of benefit she is being paid and tell her that you won't pay further rent, if you don't see it.
    Originally posted by huckster
    hi huckster.
    Just had a look online, it says live area?
    Not sure of the difference?
    I believe any of your reasons for an advance could be possible, even a sanction!
    She is a silly girl, if only she would be open and honest, she would have, and has had everything,that is probably the reason, too kind to her in the past.
    When a new baby is involved, it is another ball game.
    I left the rent until after I found out about the other facts, so as not to make the first post too long
    Yes, she does get help with her rent, private landlord, two bed flat.
    She gets £531, which she gives to me, in case the LL asks for upfront rent again when reviewed, but, it is £64 per month short of the full rent £595, which I paid 7 months upfront.
    As you know, upfront and DWP, pay in arrears, so a shortfall which she is not paying me back, spending it, so, when review is done, she will not have paid me back enough to cover another 6months!
    Have to wait and see how review pans out, may just do month to month? That is why I asked her questions today, I don Ď t like debt.
    However, if she has to move, or pay another 6 months upfront,: hence me paying 7 months advance rental , it will be myself again she turns too for another flat, or more money again, never ending.
    She still lives beyond her means.
    In fact, as I looked at LHA, she seems to be getting more than she should for Leeds ? £122 per week , £488 pm,is LHA for 2 bed in Leeds ?
    • Ames
    • By Ames 10th Mar 18, 8:25 PM
    • 17,239 Posts
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    Ames
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 8:25 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 8:25 PM
    Leeds is going full service soon, I think it's June or July.

    What website are you looking on? Is it her UC account or just a website like entitled to?

    I'd hope that the DWP wouldn't speak to you if you phoned about someone else's claim.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
    • joe134
    • By joe134 10th Mar 18, 9:02 PM
    • 3,110 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    joe134
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:02 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:02 PM
    Leeds is going full service soon, I think it's June or July.

    What website are you looking on? Is it her UC account or just a website like entitled to?

    I'd hope that the DWP wouldn't speak to you if you phoned about someone else's claim.
    Originally posted by Ames
    Hi both, her UC is already processed and running, she has had UC for a long time.
    I did not intend to discuss her case with the DWP, just a general enquiry about the Gov ok.uk website that give the details on.
    I know they would not discuss personal cases, would not want them to. I just wanted figures on the site confirmed.
    I do not know if she has a UC account, probably has.
    I am just trying to find out why her figures and the Gov site seem to differ.
    But as I have stated, she is not very forthcoming, so I have to try another route, sadly.
    Is UC the only benefit that is paid the same amount monthly on the same date, and not every 4 weeks , or are there others?
    How do they account for the odd days in the month ?
    Last edited by joe134; 10-03-2018 at 9:08 PM.
    • huckster
    • By huckster 11th Mar 18, 8:54 AM
    • 3,147 Posts
    • 1,339 Thanks
    huckster
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:54 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:54 AM
    £231.60 is income support for 4 weeks for someone under 25.

    Suspect they are are therefore not on UC.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • joesoap1264
    • By joesoap1264 11th Mar 18, 10:51 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    joesoap1264
    £231.60 is income support for 4 weeks for someone under 25.

    Suspect they are are therefore not on UC.
    Originally posted by huckster
    hi huckster, thanks again.
    I definitely think she is on UC because she phoned them from my house, when applying for great grandsons allowance!
    She read the e mail to me when they processed it, and paid it into her bank a/c
    I presume you were right, and she has had an advance at some stage, but wonít say when or why.
    Donít know why? She has no need to.

    Thatí s what she is like.
    I will have a strict talk to her.
    Thanks for all your help
    • sleepyjones
    • By sleepyjones 11th Mar 18, 12:22 PM
    • 3,916 Posts
    • 302,562 Thanks
    sleepyjones
    Just dug out a letter from my UC claim from last year, when I had to sign on for a few months :

    Standard Allowance : £317.82
    Housing Element : £350.01
    Total : £667.83

    My rent was £425 per month, so I also faced a shortfall in what they offered me, I guess that's standard practice.

    Obviously my figures will be different to hers as she has a child (I'm a single guy, living alone), I don't know anything about child credits/benefits and all that kind of thing.

    They can also deduct "Loans, advances, deductions, overpayments or third party payments"

    When you sign up for UC it can take up to 6 weeks for your first payment, UC do offer you an Emergency / advance payment to get you by over the 6 weeks so this might explain an Advance, if there is one.

    Looking at the rates table, it looks like she *should* be receiving :

    Personal Allowance : £251.77
    Housing Element : could be anything
    Child Element : £231.67

    So, to me, it all looks good, I don't she's misleading you (assuming the £20 off personal allowance is a repayment of some kind)

    There's a wee "Check what you should get" type service here : https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/AboutYou

    I didn't realise you got less at age under 25, so I wouldn't necessarily think she was deliberately saying she didn't know anything about the amount going up (at 25).

    As far as payment dates, everyone's is different ... they don't just pay everyone on the same date. They take the date you first apply, add 7 days that you don't get "paid for", then your "Assessment period" runs from that date (7 days after you've "signed up") ... so If I signed up for Universal Credit on the 10th of a month, my assessment period would be the 17th month - 16th of the next month, my UC payment would be a week later (ie the 24th of every month). It doesn't matter how many days are in the month, I guess they've done the maths and it all works out since some months have 30 days, some have 31, one has 28.

    To me, it all checks out, I don't think she's being dishonest with you, it's hard to ask or receive help so she might just be embarrassed about an advance if that is the case ... 6 weeks with no income is hard, I think they only allow a year to pay it back though so if she's had UC for over a year then that might not be the case ... she could be repaying an overpayment (where she was maybe paid twice one month by accident).
    Last edited by sleepyjones; 11-03-2018 at 12:26 PM.
    *Good Luck * Be Lucky * Stay Lucky*
    • Ames
    • By Ames 11th Mar 18, 1:38 PM
    • 17,239 Posts
    • 30,367 Thanks
    Ames
    I thought universal credit could only be claimed by childless people when in a live service area. I suspect that huckster is right and she is on IS not UC.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
    • sleepyjones
    • By sleepyjones 11th Mar 18, 1:42 PM
    • 3,916 Posts
    • 302,562 Thanks
    sleepyjones
    Apparently not, I think the plan is for UC to be all-encompassing, replacing all other benefits?

    Universal Credit will replace the following benefits:

    Child Tax Credit
    Housing Benefit
    Income Support
    income-based Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA)
    income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
    Working Tax Credit

    If you currently receive any of these benefits, you can't claim Universal Credit at the same time.

    guidance on eligibility :
    If you have children
    You can make a new Universal Credit claim if any of the following apply:

    have 2 children or fewer and you live in a "full service" area
    received Universal Credit in a "full service" area in the previous 6 months and your payments have stopped - it doesn't matter how many children you have
    received Universal Credit in a "live service" area in the previous 6 months and your payments ended because of your earnings - it doesn't matter how many children you have
    You can't claim if you've 3 or more children and you've not claimed Universal Credit in the last 6 months. You can apply for Child Tax Credit instead.

    https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit
    Last edited by sleepyjones; 11-03-2018 at 1:47 PM.
    *Good Luck * Be Lucky * Stay Lucky*
    • joesoap1264
    • By joesoap1264 11th Mar 18, 5:04 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    joesoap1264
    Just dug out a letter from my UC claim from last year, when I had to sign on for a few months :

    Standard Allowance : £317.82
    Housing Element : £350.01
    Total : £667.83

    My rent was £425 per month, so I also faced a shortfall in what they offered me, I guess that's standard practice.

    Obviously my figures will be different to hers as she has a child (I'm a single guy, living alone), I don't know anything about child credits/benefits and all that kind of thing.

    They can also deduct "Loans, advances, deductions, overpayments or third party payments"

    When you sign up for UC it can take up to 6 weeks for your first payment, UC do offer you an Emergency / advance payment to get you by over the 6 weeks so this might explain an Advance, if there is one.

    Looking at the rates table, it looks like she *should* be receiving :

    Personal Allowance : £251.77
    Housing Element : could be anything
    Child Element : £231.67

    So, to me, it all looks good, I don't she's misleading you (assuming the £20 off personal allowance is a repayment of some kind)

    There's a wee "Check what you should get" type service here :

    I didn't realise you got less at age under 25, so I wouldn't necessarily think she was deliberately saying she didn't know anything about the amount going up (at 25).

    As far as payment dates, everyone's is different ... they don't just pay everyone on the same date. They take the date you first apply, add 7 days that you don't get "paid for", then your "Assessment period" runs from that date (7 days after you've "signed up") ... so If I signed up for Universal Credit on the 10th of a month, my assessment period would be the 17th month - 16th of the next month, my UC payment would be a week later (ie the 24th of every month). It doesn't matter how many days are in the month, I guess they've done the maths and it all works out since some months have 30 days, some have 31, one has 28.

    To me, it all checks out, I don't think she's being dishonest with you, it's hard to ask or receive help so she might just be embarrassed about an advance if that is the case ... 6 weeks with no income is hard, I think they only allow a year to pay it back though so if she's had UC for over a year then that might not be the case ... she could be repaying an overpayment (where she was maybe paid twice one month by accident).
    Originally posted by sleepyjones
    thanks very much sleepyjones, much appreciated.
    All you have said seems to fit, her UC payments, although I have not seen her forms.
    I think she will have had an advance, because, your figures match hers, except the rent.
    I will ask her.
    I told her about the over 25 rule, she said she did not know, which I accept, the extra will pay her rent shortfall of £65.
    I told her to check it out, by phoning them, as I would be making enquiries on her behalf, for her benefit, not mine.
    I know it may come over as I do not believe her, but, I have just cause
    I appreciate all the advice, that is why I chose this route, someone who has had the experience of it.
    The Gov website is very vague at times.
    I used the calculator and got the right figures.
    Just needed clarifying.
    I only want what is best for her and child, nothing else.
    Thanks again, all of you.
    More happy now.
    • joesoap1264
    • By joesoap1264 11th Mar 18, 5:07 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    joesoap1264
    Don,t know what has happened, gone from joe 134 and 9 years user, to joesoap 1264,to newbie?
    Had to send for new password earlier, after #8 post,after clearing history,must have done something wrong??
    Any advice please?
    Last edited by joesoap1264; 11-03-2018 at 6:07 PM.
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 11th Mar 18, 6:28 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 3,420 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    Don,t know what has happened, gone from joe 134 and 9 years user, to joesoap 1264,to newbie?
    Had to send for new password earlier, after #8 post,after clearing history,must have done something wrong??
    Any advice please?
    Originally posted by joesoap1264
    Looks like you registered two separate accounts in 2009! Neither accounts are new and both have a posting history. joe134 will be registered with a different email address.
    • sleepyjones
    • By sleepyjones 11th Mar 18, 6:55 PM
    • 3,916 Posts
    • 302,562 Thanks
    sleepyjones
    I know it may come over as I do not believe her, but, I have just cause
    Originally posted by joesoap1264
    No bother Joe, I don't think anyone's judging you (or her), it's none of our business, we're just here to help (mostly)
    *Good Luck * Be Lucky * Stay Lucky*
    • dscaj1
    • By dscaj1 11th Mar 18, 8:20 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    dscaj1
    Could the £20.00 difference be for Child Benefit? She could be getting the 231.00 payment plus a £20.00 payment for child benefit making £251.00
    • joesoap1264
    • By joesoap1264 12th Mar 18, 7:34 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    joesoap1264
    Looks like you registered two separate accounts in 2009! Neither accounts are new and both have a posting history. joe134 will be registered with a different email address.
    Originally posted by BorisThomson
    Thanks Boris, trying that, with my gmail address which I also cannot use, password trouble again, I have had to try and reset that now.!
    Having to wait for that?
    Do not use it .
    All I did was clear my history off my iPad, first time for years, and had to re log in, using my aol e mail address,but would not accept my P w, so reset it, and came up as joesoap, which I had totally forgotten about.
    Tried with my gmail, but until I can log into that, cannot change joe134 PW?
    Any tips how to get back to joe 134.
    It has confused me some.
    Not hard to do :-)
    Wouldnt mind, badger has just given me another badge!as joe134!
    Not the thirteenth is it!
    Last edited by joesoap1264; 12-03-2018 at 8:03 AM.
    • joesoap1264
    • By joesoap1264 12th Mar 18, 7:36 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    joesoap1264
    Could the £20.00 difference be for Child Benefit? She could be getting the 231.00 payment plus a £20.00 payment for child benefit making £251.00
    Originally posted by dscaj1
    Doubt it, because it would then be £271, plus , I think child benefit comes separately, from Newcastle.

    Not sure about that.
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