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    • DominicB
    • By DominicB 10th Mar 18, 4:40 PM
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    DominicB
    Care Home Fees against estate after death
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 18, 4:40 PM
    Care Home Fees against estate after death 10th Mar 18 at 4:40 PM
    Hi - To cut a long story short i will highlight the important bits at this stage.
    My grandfather passed away 1991 and owned his house - completely his own name. My nan remained in the house. 2014 my nan had to be moved to a care home due to dementia. House was left empty. When she completed the paperwork with my mother when she was first admitted to the care home she stated she owned her own home. (At this point it is still not in her name). Nan passed away in 2016. Mum takes over estate - House to be sold. Mum passed away several months after this point, leaving myself and sister. Solicitors approached, all probates from all estates signed over to me as estate administrator. Then it was discovered that the deeds to the property had been lost over the years (searched and emptied house and explored all options). Application to land registry was made and is in process of completion as we speak where reconstitution of deeds made into the owners name (My grandfather).
    The sticky part is that the care home where my nan was are requesting just over 40k and is linked to the house because the have it on the application that my nan was the owner, when in truth she was never on the deeds and will not be once re issued. So at the moment the house is looking to be sold to clear these debts. I cannot remortgage as the house needs to be in my name for this to happen and until the care home has been paid off, i have been advised this cannot happen. Any help or advice as to what i can do in regards to these fees? Fees are payable to Local Authority as was a state Care Home. Thanks in Advance.
Page 1
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 10th Mar 18, 4:43 PM
    • 754 Posts
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    Flugelhorn
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 4:43 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 4:43 PM
    did grandfather leave a will, if he did then did he leave the house to her, if it was intestate then wouldn't the house have been left to her anyway as surviving spouse in 1991 ?
    • DominicB
    • By DominicB 10th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
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    DominicB
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    There was no will from anybody - We went through everything with the solicitors in the beginning.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 10th Mar 18, 4:54 PM
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    Keep pedalling
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 4:54 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 4:54 PM
    Regardless of what it says on the deeds, it is what it said on your GFs will that is important. If everything was left to her then the house was indeed hers.

    If he died intestate then the house will have passed to her in its entirety back in 1991, provided at the time it was valued below 125,000. Any amount over that value should have been split between the widow and her children. Just because the transfer was not completed when it should have been does not alter the fact that her estate owes this money.
    • DominicB
    • By DominicB 10th Mar 18, 5:00 PM
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    DominicB
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:00 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:00 PM
    There never was a will. MY grandfather did not leave a will and nor did my grandmother or my mother.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Mar 18, 5:02 PM
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    elsien
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:02 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:02 PM
    Then he died intestate. And as keep pedalling says,

    "If he died intestate then the house will have passed to her in its entirety back in 1991, provided at the time it was valued below 125,000. Any amount over that value should have been split between the widow and her children. Just because the transfer was not completed when it should have been does not alter the fact that her estate owes this money."

    Who did you all think it belonged to after he died?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 10th Mar 18, 5:05 PM
    • 29,236 Posts
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    Mojisola
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:05 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:05 PM
    When she completed the paperwork with my mother when she was first admitted to the care home she stated she owned her own home. (At this point it is still not in her name).
    Originally posted by DominicB
    It doesn't matter whose name was on the deeds - as your Nan knew, she had inherited the house and was the owner.

    The deferred payment will have to be paid.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 10th Mar 18, 5:07 PM
    • 4,980 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:07 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:07 PM
    There never was a will. MY grandfather did not leave a will and nor did my grandmother or my mother.
    Originally posted by DominicB
    Hope you are not going to make the same mistake.

    As there was not a will back in 1991 the rules of intestate apply, if your grandfathers estate was below 125,000 then it all became your GMs by default. If over that she inherits the 1st 125k and 50% of the rest, with the other 50% going to his children.

    So she either owned the whole house at the time of her death or the bulk of it. The fact that the deeds are incorrect, is down to the fact that no one in the family administered the estate, which is quite common when everything passes to the surviving spouse.
    • DominicB
    • By DominicB 10th Mar 18, 5:11 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    DominicB
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:11 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:11 PM
    'Keep Pedalling' - Will already sorted! Ok, so its kind of looking clear that the house will have to be sold then once the Deeds are re issued. Theres no way i could raise the 40k to pay them off so the house can then be placed into my name. Which is a shame and the result i was trying to steer away from. Thank you so much for all of your input!
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Mar 18, 5:27 PM
    • 16,366 Posts
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    elsien
    Mine was a genuine question, by the way. After your grandad died, the family must have known the house was Nan's to have signed to say she owned her own home. What made you think that that would change?

    Are you and your sister wanting to keep the house? Just wondering if there might be another way to raise the 40K.
    Last edited by elsien; 10-03-2018 at 5:30 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • DominicB
    • By DominicB 10th Mar 18, 5:40 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    DominicB
    Unfortunately, with my sister being younger than i am and everybody else now passed away, we have a lack of people to ask. In fact, None. I was only about 13 when my grandfather passed away. My sister already has a house through a Local Housing Association and does not want to move give that up. Obviously any monies received from the sale of the house would be a 50/50 split between the two of us once all debts have been cleared that are currently against the house, so if i was to reside at the house then we would reach an agreement (partly reasoning behind the re mortgage possibility to raise the funds to 'buy her share').
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Mar 18, 5:48 PM
    • 16,366 Posts
    • 41,361 Thanks
    elsien
    "I cannot remortgage as the house needs to be in my name for this to happen and until the care home has been paid off, i have been advised this cannot happen."

    I have no idea if this is correct or not, but where did the advice come from? Is there a charge on the property? Does it not have to be transferred into someone else's name in order to sell it?
    Last edited by elsien; 10-03-2018 at 5:50 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • DominicB
    • By DominicB 10th Mar 18, 5:52 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    DominicB
    I was told this information from the current solicitor who is heading everything up? My original idea was to remortgage so these debts could be cleared but was told i couldn't.
    • DominicB
    • By DominicB 10th Mar 18, 5:54 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    DominicB
    It can be sold whilst in my Grandfathers name as i am the legal administrator for the estates. Had to go through the various probate applications for this to happen.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 10th Mar 18, 6:39 PM
    • 12,286 Posts
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    unholyangel
    I don't understand why you can't buy the house. Theres no requirement for the house to be in your name when applying for a mortgage - if there was, no one would be able to get a mortgage without first buying the house and if they could afford to do that, they wouldn't be applying for a mortgage!

    The important thing is that you will own the house at the time the mortgage is effected. If your sister was going to be on the deeds then I could understand why the mortgage company would be reluctant (as they tend to seriously dislike when anyone has a claim on the property that isn't named as liable for the mortgage also).

    Have you actually visited a mortgage broker?
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
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