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  • FIRST POST
    • newleaf
    • By newleaf 10th Mar 18, 11:41 AM
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    newleaf
    Exercising POA?
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 18, 11:41 AM
    Exercising POA? 10th Mar 18 at 11:41 AM
    Unfortunately, my elderly mum is currently seriously ill in hospital, and recovery seems unlikely.
    We sorted out POA (medical & finances) a few years ago, when she made her will. The POA was also registered with the Court of Protection at the time, so I understand it's all ready for me to use.
    What evidence will I need to take to the bank etc. now, to allow me to take the reins?
    Official DFW Nerd No 096 - Proud to have dealt with my debt!
Page 1
    • Catswhiska
    • By Catswhiska 10th Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    • 60 Posts
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    Catswhiska
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    The actually POA paperwork or a certified copy. Identification for yourself such as a passport and utility bill.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 10th Mar 18, 3:09 PM
    • 4,991 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 3:09 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 3:09 PM
    You should not just turn up, you need to make an appointment. When you make the appointment they will inform you what you need to bring with you.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Mar 18, 3:12 PM
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    elsien
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 3:12 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 3:12 PM
    The hospital will need to see the health/welfare document for any medical decisions.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 10th Mar 18, 7:27 PM
    • 1,520 Posts
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    Zanderman
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:27 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:27 PM
    For the bank make an appointment, take the original financial PoA document plus id. Ask for online and telephone access for yourself if that's your thing - otherwise you may have to go in again for those.

    My siblings and I recently did this for our Mum's accounts at Lloyds and at NatWest. No problems - appointment for all of us (not mum) at once, all sorted. But differing treatment. Lloyds set up generic log-in for us all - i.e we all know the same login. NatWest insisted we all have separate logins.

    We all now have debit cards for her accounts with both banks.

    NatWest 'my rewards' seems impossible to access as an attorney, but that's a minor point. NatWest personal banking (investments) can only be accessed by phone and needs a completely different set-up - but easy to do.

    What we haven't yet tried is opening new accounts - we're selling her house and need to open accounts to stash the cash for her. NS&I is the obvious short-term place - and for this we'll need to apply by post, sending a certified copy of the PoA (every page certified) which we'll have to get a solicitor to do for us. Same goes for any other accounts opened by post. Can't open accounts online as PoA, unless already registered the PoA with the bank in question.

    So, so far no probs but so far it's been done face to face with the original documents.

    We haven't, yet, done anything with her utility companies - but can access that info, unofficially, by logging in with her own details. We need to rationalise this (as we can't, for example ring them up and change anything without registering PoA) - which will involve sending off certified PoA copies etc.

    We have no reason, yet, to do anything with the health PoA so can't make any comments on that.
    Last edited by Zanderman; 10-03-2018 at 10:53 PM. Reason: changed a with to without!
    • newleaf
    • By newleaf 10th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
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    newleaf
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
    Thanks Zanderman, that is very helpful information.
    I will make an appointment at her bank, of course. I wasn't intending to just rock up unannounced and expect it all to be sorted out. I just thought it would be helpful to hear what others had experienced in this situation, and it seems I may need some certified copies, so it was worthwhile posting the thread.
    Fortunately (?) mum has very little in terms of assets, doesn't own her own home etc., so I hope it will be relatively plain sailing. I have been using the POA 'under direction' for some time, so already have her Utility bills, rent, council tax etc. organised online, and paid with direct debits. I just could do with having online access to her current account for simplicity's sake, and in the eventuality of her death, I will need to be able to wind up the account.
    Surprisingly, regarding the health POA, the hospital didn't seem to want any evidence; they asked me several days ago to consent to a medicine they wanted to prescribe, but mum was very confused that day and wouldn't consent herself. They also want to do a CT scan, which she declined. They were happy enough to accept my verbal consent to both without seeing any paperwork. Probably not entirely correct procedure, but I won't create any unnecessary obstacles.
    It's a difficult and emotional time, for sure. I never imagined I'd be in this position, and I'm very sorry for anyone else who finds themselves in this sad situation, but thank God she was keen to be organised well in advance of it becoming necessary.
    Official DFW Nerd No 096 - Proud to have dealt with my debt!
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Mar 18, 9:40 PM
    • 16,373 Posts
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    elsien
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:40 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:40 PM
    Surprisingly, regarding the health POA, the hospital didn't seem to want any evidence; they asked me several days ago to consent to a medicine they wanted to prescribe, but mum was very confused that day and wouldn't consent herself. They also want to do a CT scan, which she declined. They were happy enough to accept my verbal consent to both without seeing any paperwork. Probably not entirely correct procedure, but I won't create any unnecessary obstacles.
    Originally posted by newleaf
    It isn't the correct procedure. I would suggest taking a copy in anyway because you don't want someone to remember they need to do things properly just at the time an important decision needs to be made. Hospital insisted on seeing the POA (for obvious reasons) when discussing a Do Not Rescusitate order for a relative.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • newleaf
    • By newleaf 10th Mar 18, 9:56 PM
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    newleaf
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:56 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:56 PM
    Thanks, I will have some certified copies done this week and get one filed in mum!!!8217;s notes. The DNR issue is already resolved though. Mum was very clear on that point.
    Official DFW Nerd No 096 - Proud to have dealt with my debt!
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 11th Mar 18, 8:56 AM
    • 755 Posts
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    Flugelhorn
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:56 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 8:56 AM
    I completed a H&W POA for my mother but she filled in a date wrong and it was hence not cleared but the OPG. In the end it made no difference and the document, had it existed, would not have been used.
    Fortunately the P&FA POA was correctly completed.
    Discussions and decisions re health care when she had no capacity were made in her best interests by the team looking after her following discussions with OH and I.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 11th Mar 18, 2:40 PM
    • 1,612 Posts
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    badmemory
    It is always possible if you have used the H&W one at the GPs that the hospital may already know about it. They did for my mother.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 11th Mar 18, 6:29 PM
    • 25,371 Posts
    • 14,967 Thanks
    xylophone
    I just could do with having online access to her current account for simplicity's sake, and in the eventuality of her death, I will need to be able to wind up the account.
    Be aware that PoA ends with death.

    At that point the executor steps in.
    • newleaf
    • By newleaf 11th Mar 18, 7:26 PM
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    newleaf
    Be aware that PoA ends with death.

    At that point the executor steps in.
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Thanks, that's me too.
    Official DFW Nerd No 096 - Proud to have dealt with my debt!
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Mar 18, 7:30 PM
    • 9,401 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    Be aware that PoA ends with death.

    At that point the executor steps in.
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Yep, once she dies the POA is null and void and its down to the standard probate procedures.

    And to echo a previous poster, I've not found any interest at all amongst medical professionals in querying whether i had a POA before actually activating DNR, deciding what medicine or care was, they just asked me when relative was not in a fit state to answer for themselves.

    Me and MrsAJ did do back to back medical POAs but I've concluded from my experiences that was a waste of money.

    Financial, another matter, well worth doing.
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 12th Mar 18, 9:20 AM
    • 2,426 Posts
    • 1,632 Thanks
    Vortigern
    I've not found any interest at all amongst medical professionals in querying whether i had a POA before actually activating DNR, deciding what medicine or care was, they just asked me when relative was not in a fit state to answer for themselves.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    St. James's Hospital in Leeds asked about and noted the existence of a Health & Welfare LPA for an elderly relative hospitalised last November. This was not for a DNR decision at that time.

    Money Saving Tip: You can get a PoA copied and certified at a JobCentre - just tell them it's in connection with your relatives Attendance Allowance, State Pension or tax affairs.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 12th Mar 18, 9:25 AM
    • 16,373 Posts
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    elsien
    Yep, once she dies the POA is null and void and its down to the standard probate procedures.

    And to echo a previous poster, I've not found any interest at all amongst medical professionals in querying whether i had a POA before actually activating DNR, deciding what medicine or care was, they just asked me when relative was not in a fit state to answer for themselves.

    Me and MrsAJ did do back to back medical POAs but I've concluded from my experiences that was a waste of money.

    Financial, another matter, well worth doing.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    They are acting unlawfully if they don't check. My aunt had an ex-husband turn up and start trying to make decisions although they'd been divorced for 20 years and she couidnt stand the sight of him. The POA soon put a stop to that.
    Plus the health and welfare one isn't just for medical decisions it can also be for where someone lives plus decisions about how they live their lives. I'd certainly want one. It's the difference between being consulted in the decision but someone else making it, or being able to make the decision yourself.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • newleaf
    • By newleaf 12th Mar 18, 9:45 AM
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    newleaf
    I agree elsien, and I'm glad she made one. My husband and I also have them.
    Today I'll be speaking to doctor and social worker about mum's future care, which looks likely to be very short term. I'm sure the POA is going to be looked at in the process, even though the hospital so far haven't felt the need.
    Official DFW Nerd No 096 - Proud to have dealt with my debt!
    • sazdes
    • By sazdes 12th Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    • 97 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    sazdes
    the hospital are not neccesarily acting unlawfully without requesting to see the POA (although normal practice is to see and photocopy the original on admission), as they are most likely acting under the principles of "best interest" where the team are managing in the best way they see fit whilst checking you are in agreement with their plan

    POA (medical) tends to only be truly neccessary when there is a dispute between the relative and the medics regarding what they feel is the best management plan for the individual (similar to why jehovah's witnesses carry advanced directive paperwork, as if a dr admits an unconscious individual off of the street, they would assume that if they required blood transfusions the default view point would be to accept this in order to survive).

    Hope things go as smoothly as possible and sorry that you are going through it
    • arielsmelody
    • By arielsmelody 12th Mar 18, 11:34 AM
    • 29 Posts
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    arielsmelody
    One thing about original Power of Attorney documents - be very careful if someone at a bank etc takes them out to a back room to photocopy and removes the staples. One member of staff forgot to return one page, and another gave us back a photocopy of a page rather than the original (which has an embossed pattern of dots). Make sure you know exactly how many pages should be there (some may not be included in the page numbering system) and that you have all the original pages before you leave the building. You could do something like number the pages yourself in pencil on the back to make it easy to check.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 12th Mar 18, 12:16 PM
    • 9,401 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    There is no need to pay a solicitor to get certified copies. The govt website tells you what to do (which basically consists of particular wording signed and dated on every page) and you can get a stamp with that wording on it and then sign and date it yourslef (it doesn't need to be a solicitor)

    Good points from arielsmelody but should any of mine be needed they will be getting a copy.

    If it is really against the law (which i somehow doubt) not to see a POA before asking next of kin what to do, that's going to cause a lot of problems for the majority that dont have POA and probably havent even heard of one.

    I can see in the case of arguing relatives why it would be useful, but for 3 of my aged now deceased relatives (one very recent) there were numerous occasions at care home, hospital, doctors for each where i was consulted either alone or with them about what to do with absolutely no mention of POA.
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 12th Mar 18, 2:16 PM
    • 755 Posts
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    Flugelhorn
    There is no need to pay a solicitor to get certified copies. The govt website tells you what to do (which basically consists of particular wording signed and dated on every page) and you can get a stamp with that wording on it and then sign and date it yourslef (it doesn't need to be a solicitor)
    has to be signed and done by the donor and they have to still have capacity to be able to do it, wish I had registered the POA earlier and got it certified like that
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