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  • FIRST POST
    • WombatNo1
    • By WombatNo1 10th Mar 18, 9:47 AM
    • 10Posts
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    WombatNo1
    Hospital employee parking charge
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:47 AM
    Hospital employee parking charge 10th Mar 18 at 9:47 AM
    The driver tried to park in the car park of the hospital, where they work as a nurse, one morning recently, They have a permit entitling them to park onsite as they work both community and hospital. It is notoriously short of staff spaces. They did 2 full circuits of the site before giving up and parking on a yellow hatched area. It was in no way hazardous or obstructing. (my recollection is that the hatching is positioned where it is because of historical access). This meant they had 10 minutes to get to a clinic where patients were waiting to be seen.
    The ticket states payment of 60 unless paid within 14 days then it halves to 30. I don't think the driver should have to pay to go to work when they already have a valid permit simply because the trust can't provide enough legitimate spaces. There is an appeals process but a friend said if the driver appeal then they acknowledge guilt??? There is reference to the hospital contacting DVLA for keeper details if they refuse to pay but as the same hospital department provides the parking permits for employees as posts the charge notices, it doesn't need to.
    At the very least I think the charge is excessive.
    Any advice/opinions please?
    Last edited by WombatNo1; 11-03-2018 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Advised by Fruitcake in a response
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Mar 18, 10:10 AM
    • 35,623 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:10 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:10 AM
    Get your employer to get it cancelled.

    Are you in a union? See if they will help
    • tessiesmummy
    • By tessiesmummy 10th Mar 18, 10:18 AM
    • 146 Posts
    • 126 Thanks
    tessiesmummy
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:18 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:18 AM
    I got a ticket for parking on site at 9pm on easter monday. I asked about appealing it because im staff and i thought the parking charges were 8-8 otherwise id have just paid in the multistorey. They basically said ive got no chance so i just left it thinking it would go away. The trust were very fast at increasing the fine and threatening a ccj (less than 2 months)
    I ended up paying 180 to avoid the ccj.
    forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5789716 Debt Free Wannabe
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Mar 18, 10:28 AM
    • 36,652 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:28 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:28 AM
    I got a ticket for parking on site at 9pm on easter monday. I asked about appealing it because im staff and i thought the parking charges were 8-8 otherwise id have just paid in the multistorey. They basically said ive got no chance so i just left it thinking it would go away. The trust were very fast at increasing the fine and threatening a ccj (less than 2 months)
    I ended up paying 180 to avoid the ccj.
    Originally posted by tessiesmummy
    You were given terrible advice. Every PCN is appealable and even if this went to court, you would have ended up paying no more than you have already, and probably less. Of course, with our help you would have stood a very good chance of winning
    You can't just be given a CCJ. There is a whole process involved. You would have to go to court, and lose, and be ordered to pay and fail to pay within a prescribed time before getting a CCJ. If you paid the judgement you wouldn't get a CCJ.
    If you had appealed there is a better than 50-50 chance you would have paid nothing.

    Please read the NEWBIES and tell everyone you know to do the same if you get a PCN.

    Also complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • waamo
    • By waamo 10th Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    • 3,246 Posts
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    waamo
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    Your friend is a bit of an idiot. Appealing it clearly is not admitting guilt. Who issued the ticket? Is it the hospital themselves or a private company employed by the hospital?
    This space for hire.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Mar 18, 10:34 AM
    • 36,652 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:34 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:34 AM
    Wombat, please edit your post to remove information about who did what. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people.

    Once you have done that, please read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES, then send the appeal template you will find there.

    Do not say who was driving. Do not say things like I parked ...
    Send the template exactly as it is.

    Complain to your boss, and Union rep if you have one, and your MP.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 10th Mar 18, 11:27 AM
    • 1,037 Posts
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    Johnersh
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 11:27 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 11:27 AM
    Are you Oxford perchance? The OUH Trust are one of the few that effectively run their own parking and enforcement, rather than subcontract. They also have form for suing their own employees...
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Mar 18, 12:09 PM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,980 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:09 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:09 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, Smart and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They nearly always lose) and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.

    MPs are especially concerned about parking charges issued at hospitals and residential sites.


    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-03-2018 at 10:23 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Mar 18, 1:53 PM
    • 36,652 Posts
    • 83,020 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 18, 1:53 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 18, 1:53 PM
    Are you Oxford perchance? The OUH Trust are one of the few that effectively run their own parking and enforcement, rather than subcontract. They also have form for suing their own employees...
    Originally posted by Johnersh
    Dorchester (Dorset), Southmead (North Bristol), and Weston General (Somerset) hospitals all run their own as far as I recall.
    Dorchester is a BPA member but I'm not sure about the others.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • WombatNo1
    • By WombatNo1 11th Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    WombatNo1
    Get your employer to get it cancelled.
    Originally posted by Quentin
    It was my employer who issued it

    @Fruitcake
    Wombat, please edit your post to remove information about who did what. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people.
    Done

    @waamo it is the hospital/trust itself

    It is Hampshire Hospitals (Winchester)
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Mar 18, 10:39 AM
    • 35,623 Posts
    • 19,852 Thanks
    Quentin
    Worth still asking your Manager and union to intervene!


    Do appeal - ignore the suggestion from your friend that an appeal = admission of "guilt"!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Mar 18, 7:08 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Get your employer to get it cancelled.
    It was my employer who issued it
    We know, and these are cancelled all the time by Facilities Managers at Hospitals.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • WombatNo1
    • By WombatNo1 13th Mar 18, 9:26 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    WombatNo1
    Thank you for all replies, I have a couple of queries and have tried to find answers in the NEWBIES faq sticky but not very succesfully.
    a) The vehicle was parked on hatchings so technically incorrectly but the hospital appeal system states
    Vehicle Drivers Guide to Appealing a Penalty Charge Notice
    When can you appeal?
    An appeal can be made to the parking team with 28 days of having received a Penalty Charge Notice. Appeals will not be considered after this time.
    What are the Grounds for Appeal?
    There are two grounds for appeal that will be considered by the appeals panel;
    That the notice was not correctly applied. You believe that you were parked appropriately and had not contravened any of the Trusts parking regulations.
    That there were exceptional circumstances that led you to park in a way with contravened the Trusts parking regulations
    b) the thing that struck me most about these instructions and the template to be completed was that they state Penalty Notice where it was actually a Parking Charge Notice and also to be completed by driver meaning that in completing it you acknowledge that you were driving.

    The threads I've searched all relate to parking companies operating in hospital car parks or to patients/visitors charges.
    c) I have checked this morning and the Trust isn't listed as a member on either IPC or BPA.
    d) just to confuse the issue the car is leased via the MyCar scheme and payment for the lease is made directly from salary.

    The simplest thing would just be to pay but I don't want to
    Last edited by WombatNo1; 13-03-2018 at 9:28 AM.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 13th Mar 18, 9:49 AM
    • 2,908 Posts
    • 4,416 Thanks
    fisherjim
    Calling it a "penalty charge" notice is a misrepresentation of authority, I would report them to trading standards.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 13th Mar 18, 12:52 PM
    • 2,516 Posts
    • 3,081 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    If it is their land they dont need to be an ATA member.

    Lease car - then you appeal AS KEEPER to the notice. You just state YOU ARE THE KEEPER and thats it. They cannot then claim they can "assume" you were teh driver.

    Indeed, calling it a penalty charge is a misrepresentation of authority. Trading standards.
    • WombatNo1
    • By WombatNo1 16th Mar 18, 8:18 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    WombatNo1
    Sorry to be vague but still not very clear on what I should do?

    I have read the NEWBIES sticky post and looked at the template but it really isn't relevant. The hospital owns the land, the car was on yellow hatchings but not in anyway hazardous/obstructive. They already have my details as they hand out the permits (not sure if they could use the info gleaned that way?).

    My argument is really that if it hadn't been parked that way their patients wouldn't have been seen, or at least would have had to wait until a space became available.

    With regard to the fact that they stuck a "parking notice" on the car and the appeal process calls it a "Penalty notice"; is there anyway I can use this to my benefit?
    Thank you again for any assistance.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 16th Mar 18, 8:57 AM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,980 Thanks
    The Deep
    Have you seen this?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Mar 18, 9:37 AM
    • 36,652 Posts
    • 83,020 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Is it this lot?

    https://www.hampshirehospitals.nhs.uk/work-with-us/jobs/benefits.aspx

    It says several times that staff parking is free, and that the trust cares about its staff in both the staff and nurses sections. It says they understand how stressful the job can be.

    I think that the current situation the OP finds themselves in must be very stressful, a situation brought on as a result of the hospital's actions.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Mar 18, 12:26 AM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Sorry to be vague but still not very clear on what I should do?

    I have read the NEWBIES sticky post and looked at the template but it really isn't relevant. The hospital owns the land, the car was on yellow hatchings but not in anyway hazardous/obstructive. They already have my details as they hand out the permits (not sure if they could use the info gleaned that way?).

    My argument is really that if it hadn't been parked that way their patients wouldn't have been seen, or at least would have had to wait until a space became available.

    With regard to the fact that they stuck a "parking notice" on the car and the appeal process calls it a "Penalty notice"; is there anyway I can use this to my benefit?
    Thank you again for any assistance.
    Originally posted by WombatNo1
    Just use the NEWBIES thread template, it DOES apply and is carefully worded, and designed to be submitted on day 26, NOT SOONER, by the keeper (NOT DRIVER) for the very good reasons explained in the sticky.

    There is method in the (Coupon) madness.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • WombatNo1
    • By WombatNo1 21st Mar 18, 4:16 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    WombatNo1
    Just use the NEWBIES thread template, it DOES apply and is carefully worded, and designed to be submitted on day 26, NOT SOONER, by the keeper (NOT DRIVER) for the very good reasons explained in the sticky.

    There is method in the (Coupon) madness.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Hi Coupon'

    I appreciate that someone has gone to a lot of trouble to create this template and I am also aware that I am nothing special and my issue is probably not unique but I (despite being reasonably intelligent) am having difficulty seeing the relevance of the template... Also this is my employer I'm dealing with and my 14 days are up tomorrow

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Re PCN number:

    I am the keeper of the vehicle which received this purported 'parking charge'. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. I am not liable and I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs are in small print and the onerous terms are not readable.Yellow hatching was visible

    Should you fail to cancel this PCN immediately, I require the following information with your template rejection:

    1. Does your charge represent damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    2. Please provide dated photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract.again, yellow hatchings
    3. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.

    I am alarmed by your contact and I do not give you consent to process any data relating to me, or this vehicle. I deny liability and will not respond to debt collectors. You must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA, and should you fail to respond accordingly, your company will be reported to the Information Commissioner.

    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and will also be making a formal complaint to your client landowner.The company/hospital is the landowner

    If you are a current BPA member, send me a POPLA code. If you are an IPC firm, cease and desist with all contact.A previous post stated that private landowners don't require BPA membership

    Yours faithfully,
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