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    • Michael Stobswell
    • By Michael Stobswell 10th Mar 18, 9:30 AM
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    Michael Stobswell
    Is my Meter Clock E7 or E10 - see photos
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:30 AM
    Is my Meter Clock E7 or E10 - see photos 10th Mar 18 at 9:30 AM
    Hi,
    Just moved to a new house. Not sure what time the night tariff starts according to the clock. Please someone who knows help.

    The picture is taken at 14:15. What time is my night tariff and is there more than one tariff?
    dropbox.com/s/oj7ix96z2bgofxy/clock2.jpg?dl=0

    Also my storage heaters are off and cold. Is it possible to be a switch connected to the clock so they turn on only at night tariff?
    Please see the photo below, is this a potential automatic e7 switch?
    dropbox.com/s/jz9hedlto4gxvgy/switch.jpg?dl=0

    Thank you in advance.
Page 1
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 10th Mar 18, 10:17 AM
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    House Martin
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:17 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:17 AM
    looks like E10 . The timer switch pointer thinks its 12.45 pm , so if you took the photo at 14.15 pm then its an hour and a half out at the moment.when the clocks go forward that will change.
    I never see e10 or white meter timerswitches. E7 just has three pointers.. On, /Off for the 7 hrs and one for the present time which on that photo appears to be at 12 .45 ish.
    Best thing is to try and observe the day/night /boost meters when any one starts to advance. Only the occupier can work this one out.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/oj7ix96z2bgofxy/clock2.jpeg?=0
    Last edited by House Martin; 10-03-2018 at 12:07 PM.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 10th Mar 18, 10:27 AM
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    molerat
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:27 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:27 AM
    The second picture is a separate 40A circuit. Cooker, shower, garage ?

    Storage heaters should be wired to either their own consumer unit or one half of a split load box wired in only to the off peak output of the timer.

    Some odd switching times on that timer. Is it actually sealed so you cannot adjust it yourself ? You are getting 11.75 hours off peak. E10 in Scotland should have something like 0430-0730, 1330-1630 & 2030-0030. The time is also out, it is reading 12.45. Your clock timings are 1600-1700, 2230-0715 & 0900-1100 but is actually live at 1730-1830, 00.00-0845 & 1030-1230. All times GMT. After the end of he month they come on an extra hour later.
    Last edited by molerat; 10-03-2018 at 10:37 AM.
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    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 10th Mar 18, 10:52 AM
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    House Martin
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:52 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:52 AM
    The timer clocks are protected with an official seal. Can t have people adjusting it to suit how long they want the cheap rate to stay on molerat.. That is energy theft
    Last edited by House Martin; 10-03-2018 at 12:07 PM.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 10th Mar 18, 12:37 PM
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    molerat
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:37 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:37 PM
    I know that which is why I asked if it was actually sealed and I was not suggesting that op do that but that it has already been done as the times set are very strange.
    Last edited by molerat; 10-03-2018 at 12:41 PM.
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    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 10th Mar 18, 12:46 PM
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    House Martin
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:46 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:46 PM
    I know that which is why I asked if it was actually sealed and I was not suggesting that op do that but that it has already been done as the times set are very strange.
    Originally posted by molerat
    Yes they are all over the place. OP check that there is a small wire seal on one corner of the time switch.Someones maybe been in it for a fiddle around.
    Suppliers do come out to adjust an incorrect time clock and Scottish Power are the only supplier who actually care about the correct timings on time switch clocks. If more than 2 hrs adrift they ask us to note it. The others, incl BG, Eon, EDF are not interested
    These complex meter set ups usually have Radio Teleswitch controlled timers.Very accurate and do not drift out of time
    • jk0
    • By jk0 10th Mar 18, 5:57 PM
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    jk0
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:57 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 5:57 PM
    That looks like the sort of timeswitch that used to be in my father's house until about 20 years ago. It gives an afternoon boost which is required by old fashioned foot thick storage heaters.
    • Michael Stobswell
    • By Michael Stobswell 10th Mar 18, 11:28 PM
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    Michael Stobswell
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 11:28 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 11:28 PM
    Hi all,

    Thanks for the help. The clock is sealed at the bottom, plus I know not to touch anything anyway. I called Scottish Power and they said they put the meters there themselves in 1996. So, I presume since that time the clock has been like that.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 11th Mar 18, 12:16 AM
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    CashStrapped
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 12:16 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 12:16 AM
    @House Martin

    Interesting you say that about the radio teleswitch. I always wondered how accurate those things really are, and then I saw this recently

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZRdwC2U4rI

    From what I can see, the unit switches the dedicated E7 circuits on 1 hour before it switches to counting on the night rate.

    Granted it could have been fiddled with, but it is worth checking those teleswitches once in a while and ensuring the use is being counted on the correct rate.

    Reliable piece of kit though.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 11th Mar 18, 12:07 PM
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    House Martin
    @House Martin

    Interesting you say that about the radio teleswitch. I always wondered how accurate those things really are, and then I saw this recently

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZRdwC2U4rI

    From what I can see, the unit switches the dedicated E7 circuits on 1 hour before it switches to counting on the night rate.

    Granted it could have been fiddled with, but it is worth checking those teleswitches once in a while and ensuring the use is being counted on the correct rate.
    Interesting Youtube vid CashStrapped.
    Reliable piece of kit though.
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    Radio Teleswitch stick to GMT all year so its an hour out in BST.
    All digital timers seem to stay in GMT but I m sure smart meters can be programmed to switch to BST. I have nt seen any Eco 7 smart meters in use so far for some strange reason at least not with BG, EDF, Scot Power as of yet.
    Interesting Youtube vid CashStrapped. It was a Scottish switch so maybe its set up for their "white meter " timings which have boost as well as the normal 7 hrs. I have checked them occasionally and watched them switch over from night to day, they are always more or less on time to a minute or so unlike the digital Ampy meters where I ve seen their timers drift as much as 4 hrs. I n a meter room with over 60 eco 7 digital meters I hear them clicking over from night to day throughout the morning with hardly any of them around the 8.30 am (BST ) official times.
    Smart Eco 7 should end all this , their clocks will stay on time.. I d guess !
    Would be good to know that when you have say, a shower that you re not paying double the kwh rate due to a faulty time switch
    Last edited by House Martin; 11-03-2018 at 6:30 PM.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 11th Mar 18, 1:46 PM
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    matelodave
    I'm guessing the radio teleswitched have a bit of random delay built in otherwise the network would come to a grinding halt if all of them switched at exactly the same time.

    A whole estate (or even street) of houses each suddenly bunging on 25kw all at the same time could prove interesting.
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    • jk0
    • By jk0 11th Mar 18, 11:32 PM
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    jk0
    @House Martin

    Interesting you say that about the radio teleswitch. I always wondered how accurate those things really are, and then I saw this recently

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZRdwC2U4rI

    From what I can see, the unit switches the dedicated E7 circuits on 1 hour before it switches to counting on the night rate.

    Granted it could have been fiddled with, but it is worth checking those teleswitches once in a while and ensuring the use is being counted on the correct rate.

    Reliable piece of kit though.
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    Most of my rentals have a similar meter to that. It actually records at three different rates. The cheapest is 'controlled heating', which brings on the two orange neons. They just switch this on when they have surplus energy. The next cheapest is 'night rate' which brings on the two red neons. This is the same times every night for people to use washing machines etc. The most expensive is 'day rate' which is when the red neons are out.

    As you can see, it is possible to be paying 30p per unit for day rate at the same time as your storage heaters are charging at 10p. This does seem a little unfair to me.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 12th Mar 18, 12:15 AM
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    CashStrapped
    I'm guessing the radio teleswitched have a bit of random delay built in otherwise the network would come to a grinding halt if all of them switched at exactly the same time.

    A whole estate (or even street) of houses each suddenly bunging on 25kw all at the same time could prove interesting.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    Yeh that was a possible reason for the hot water circuit to go on and off.

    But, that does not explain why the e7 circuits come on one hour before the E7 metering. That is a full hour of tank heating that could be done on day rate. Which is a large proportion of the hot water tank.

    They could stagger the signal after the meter is counting on the E7 rate, not before!

    Regarding it being BST or GMT, this should not matter with a radio teleswitch should it? It switches when it gets the encoded signal and I would have assumed that that would change with the clocks.

    Even if it did not, it is still getting a signal to activate the E7 circuit (storage and hot water) one hour before the the E7 metering counter is activated.

    ----

    In my mind that would mean that every so often, an E7 property should do a test

    Wait till they see the storage heater sockets come on, which means the circuit has been activated. Then, go to the meter to check that that the use is being recorded on the E7 dial.
    • jk0
    • By jk0 12th Mar 18, 12:22 AM
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    jk0

    But, that does not explain why the e7 circuits come on one hour before the E7 metering. That is a full hour of tank heating that could be done on day rate. Which is a large proportion of the hot water tank.
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    I explained it in the post before yours.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 12th Mar 18, 12:38 AM
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    CashStrapped
    I know how the meters work. The engineer in the video actually explains that too.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "surplus energy". Do you mean when the grid is not in demand?

    ---

    That is not how the tele-switch should work. The E7 circuit (orange lights) should not normally be activated until the E7 metering (red lights) is activated. Otherwise use is recorded at the wrong rate.

    This issue in this example is that the E7 circuits comes on a full hour before it's use is recorded on the cheaper rate meter.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 12-03-2018 at 2:03 AM.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 12th Mar 18, 9:30 AM
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    House Martin
    I know how the meters work. The engineer in the video actually explains that too.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "surplus energy". Do you mean when the grid is not in demand?

    ---

    That is not how the tele-switch should work. The E7 circuit (orange lights) should not normally be activated until the E7 metering (red lights) is activated. Otherwise use is recorded at the wrong rate.

    This issue in this example is that the E7 circuits comes on a full hour before it's use is recorded on the cheaper rate meter.
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    In that interesting Youtube vid he did mention that the teleswitch was internally adjusted and was from a Scottish location where they have a lot of odd timings with their white meter and heatwise set-ups.They will be internally adjusted for each area s published times prior to installing. I don`t think we can make a conclusion about their accuracy from just one on a bench.
    Personally I ve never come across one in my 20 years on the job, which is coming on a full hour before the published times of 12.30 am to 7.30 am in my area in S. Yorks.
    I m only around meter reading after 8 am but the ones I ve seen are all pretty much correct around the 8.30 am (BST ) mark clicking over to the day rate.
    Its important I get the rates correct with Eco 7 in the early morning so I pay attention to the timer switches and digital clocks on the Ampy meter types in the mornings.
    The old 24hr circular analogue timers have their 7 hours coming on at any time within the 24 hrs. .Only Scottish Power are interested in the accuracy of Eco 7 clocks. More than 2 hours adrift and if they are contacted they will come out to adjust/change the meter and time switch
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