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  • FIRST POST
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 10th Mar 18, 7:48 AM
    • 35Posts
    • 4Thanks
    2018d
    Is this a polite rejection
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:48 AM
    Is this a polite rejection 10th Mar 18 at 7:48 AM
    I re-trained last winter and have been speculatively cold calling companies to find work, even if it is initially unpaid. I had a one minute conversation with one of the 'decision makers' at a highly reputable firm. Below is the correspondence. I don't know what to make of it... is this a very polite rejection? Have I made a complete fool of myself?

    I sent this follow up email one week after the phone conversation in early December where he asked me to send over my resume.

    Hello,


    I sent a speculative enquiry (below)last week regarding an unpaid position.


    I wonder if you had a chance to look over my details.


    Please do advise me of your decision.


    Thanks


    Hi Sophia. Unfortunately we do not have any suitable openings at the current time. I will definitely keep your cv under reference for suitable junior roles in the near future.

    Best, Steve

    In mid-Feb I re-contacted him with this

    Hi Steve. Iím wondering, any Unpaid Junior roles? Anything I can do to better my chances?
    Best
    Sophia

    Response

    We really donít have any positions at the moment Sophia, although I definitely admire your energy. If anything suitable comes along I will certainly be in touch.

    Best,Steve

    I really hope so and look forward to it. Because I have research that I would like to show you then.

    Best wishes Steve

    Sophia



    Is this all just a very polite, time wasting rejection? I have had rejections many, many times in the past but they are usually direct and to the point.eg you need more experience, try again in a few years, we look for xyz qualifications.

    I also included a sample of my work in the initial email. I know that my work is 'competent' for a newbie, as the institute I trained with actually offered me job which I rejected as I did not feel I would progress in a learning environment as I would in a real work situation.

    Im looking for experienced opinions so that I can get some sense of this or closure and move on.
Page 5
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 13th Mar 18, 8:52 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    My masters is a bit out of the ordinary, as it is awarded as a first degree, but like all other ones that I know of, there is no class attached to it. Same with the doctorate. I was awarded it, no class attached.

    The OP seems to be a bit of a fantasist. Long-term unemployed, supposedly great degree that sounds pretty poor or made up, and desperate to get an unpaid job in a firm that does not want them.

    I know that I may be wrong, but this first class masters just does not ring true.

    OP, which UK institution are you saying awards first class masters degrees? This seems iffy.
    Originally posted by John-K
    So you lied about the first class masters then?

    Why the lie?

    And you don!!!8217;t trump mine, sorry.

    Now, get a job.
    Originally posted by John-K

    MS Public Relations from NYU (that is in the USA) where I was awarded a first 4.0 GPA, 100% (and yes, it is possible)


    are you illiterate?

    MS is a Master of Science.

    Im done, I can't believe Im asking people like this for their opinion
    • Nothanks
    • By Nothanks 13th Mar 18, 8:58 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 134 Thanks
    Nothanks
    I really want you to thrive and succeed Sophia, I really do but you're really a bit grating mate.

    The reason people are struggling with your thread:

    Your original question isn't really clear - is Steve politely saying "no"? Yes, he is. End of, not a lot of mileage in the post mortem. Then the perception was that the wider forum should better recognise your brilliance. Whether that was your intent or not, that was the impact.

    You studied in NY, - if you're one of our beloved seppo cousins then that might go a long way to explaining your pickle. Cultural differences are a hell of a thing, and that would also explain why someone earlier wondered if you were a native speaker. Arrogance is a particularly British hang up.

    I hope your many expectations, investment portfolio, modelling career, research and commercial success all come about for you, but if you take nothing else from this thread please reflect on your impact on others in your communication. Dissecting it afterwards or being defensive over who has the best degree on the internet doth butter no parsnips petal.
    Anything I post is solely MY OPINION. It never constitutes legal, financial or collective bargaining advice. I may tell you based on information given how I might approach an employment dispute case, but you should always seek advice from your own Union representative. If you don't have one, get one!
    • John-K
    • By John-K 13th Mar 18, 9:01 PM
    • 654 Posts
    • 1,009 Thanks
    John-K

    MS Public Relations from NYU (that is in the USA) where I was awarded a first 4.0 GPA, 100% (and yes, it is possible)


    are you illiterate?

    MS is a Master of Science.

    Im done, I can't believe Im asking people like this for their opinion
    Originally posted by 2018d
    Still not a first class petal, sorry, masters do not have classes. You are confusing them with first degrees.

    My Oxford degree, I am ashamed to say, is only a 2:1.

    My masters, like with all, has no class, it is just a masters.

    An MA in Science, quite the anomaly, eh?
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 13th Mar 18, 9:02 PM
    • 1,473 Posts
    • 1,116 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    This is turning into abuse now, but just to shut you all up

    I have a Law LLB First class
    LLM Distinction, both from SOAS ever heard of it?
    MS Public Relations from NYU (that is in the USA) where I was awarded a first 4.0 GPA, 100% (and yes, it is possible)

    Btw Im not long term unemployed I have investments that generate an income, plus I RETRAINED, which ended 3 months ago and it is my choice which firms choose to work for, if they'll have me. If I choose to work unpaid for a set period of time ie 6 weeks in the vein of an internship that is my choice and not what this thread is about

    But thanks your 'brilliant' speculation and detective work as well as your psychoanalysis of me being a fantasist John Smith, who no doubt got his Masters in Philosophy at the pub
    Originally posted by 2018d

    Ah! Distinction - that's the word I was looking for in an earlier post when I said "commendation". (I also studied at what was, 35 years ago, part of University of London).


    Please don't take this wrongly (I do not wish to be rude or abusive), but if you've got a first class LLB (in law!) and an LLM (with distinction from SOAS) and a top grade MS from NYU, why are you asking somewhat cryptic questions to random strangers on the internet?


    You've said you've RETRAINED, but what does that mean? Have you retrained from law to public relations? Why?


    I know people with similar academic qualifications to you. (I got an LLM from London in 1983.) Some of them have probably earned millions. But some of them may have been unemployable.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 13th Mar 18, 9:08 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    I really want you to thrive and succeed Sophia, I really do but you're really a bit grating mate.

    The reason people are struggling with your thread:

    Your original question isn't really clear - is Steve politely saying "no"? Yes, he is. End of, not a lot of mileage in the post mortem. Then the perception was that the wider forum should better recognise your brilliance. Whether that was your intent or not, that was the impact.

    You studied in NY, - if you're one of our beloved seppo cousins then that might go a long way to explaining your pickle. Cultural differences are a hell of a thing, and that would also explain why someone earlier wondered if you were a native speaker. Arrogance is a particularly British hang up.

    I hope your many expectations, investment portfolio, modelling career, research and commercial success all come about for you, but if you take nothing else from this thread please reflect on your impact on others in your communication. Dissecting it afterwards or being defensive over who has the best degree on the internet doth butter no parsnips petal.
    Originally posted by Nothanks

    Im sorry but just because I spent a year in the States idoes not make me American. I actually am British and am fully familiar with 'tall poppy syndrome' and will leave it at that.

    Its your opinion that it is rejection, there are others who think its a not new but possibly in the future. However, I still can ask on a forum. If this was a straight cut question there wouldn't be different opinions on this thread.

    . Dissecting it afterwards or being defensive over who has the best degree on the internet doth butter no parsnips petal.

    I agree with this, but when Im being called terms like bunny boiler, fantasist, revolutionary research, questioning my qualifications and my work, whether English is my native language I find that offensive.


    So you lied about the first class masters then?

    Why the lie?

    And you don!!!8217;t trump mine, sorry.

    Now, get a job.


    For eg this posting which is the final straw.

    It is my fault, I should have just ignored the trolls
    Last edited by 2018d; 13-03-2018 at 9:10 PM.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 13th Mar 18, 9:16 PM
    • 654 Posts
    • 1,009 Thanks
    John-K
    You know what, OP, I am a bit sorry at making fun of you. You committed a silly white lie about your masters, and I am fortunate that no matter what your degree, I know that mine are at least equal to it, so was amused at your attempted boasting.

    It is something that Oxbridge graduates are rightly criticised for, and I will stop now. I hope that you find a job.

    I was not serious about sending me your CV by the way...
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 13th Mar 18, 9:22 PM
    • 19,141 Posts
    • 19,609 Thanks
    jobbingmusician

    MS Public Relations from NYU (that is in the USA) where I was awarded a first 4.0 GPA, 100% (and yes, it is possible)


    are you illiterate?

    MS is a Master of Science.

    Im done, I can't believe Im asking people like this for their opinion
    Originally posted by 2018d
    MS in this country is a disease, an occupation or a manuscript. A Master of Science is an MSc. I say this without wanting to disparage the fact that the US presumably calls this degree an MS. If you are applying for jobs in this country, you are disadvantaging yourself if you use an abbreviation which few people will understand.

    Still not a first class petal, sorry, masters do not have classes. You are confusing them with first degrees.

    My Oxford degree, I am ashamed to say, is only a 2:1.

    My masters, like with all, has no class, it is just a masters.

    An MA in Science, quite the anomaly, eh?
    Originally posted by John-K
    To be fair, as an example the OU awards (or awarded?) an MA even for a pure science degree.

    Its your opinion that it is rejection, there are others who think its a not new but possibly in the future.
    Originally posted by 2018d
    What on earth does this sentence mean? Come on, you were trying to persuade us how articulate you are! (I take the general omission of apostrophes as deliberate because of the site glitch.)
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

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    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 13th Mar 18, 9:23 PM
    • 1,473 Posts
    • 1,116 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    Crikey! I was interrupted composing my post #84 and it's gone nuclear!


    (Poking the hornet's nest - who would choose SOAS to do an LLB and LLM? As I recall from the early '80s, it's a relatively narrow - or very specialist - area of study. Leaving a student very narrow - or very specialist - career options in law).
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 13th Mar 18, 9:35 PM
    • 1,473 Posts
    • 1,116 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    MS in this country is a disease, an occupation or a manuscript. A Master of Science is an MSc. I say this without wanting to disparage the fact that the US presumably calls this degree an MS. If you are applying for jobs in this country, you are disadvantaging yourself if you use an abbreviation which few people will understand. (I absolutely agree with the foregoing.)



    To be fair, as an example the OU awards (or awarded?) an MA even for a pure science degree.



    What on earth does this sentence mean? Come on, you were trying to persuade us how articulate you are! (I take the general omission of apostrophes as deliberate because of the site glitch.)
    Originally posted by jobbingmusician

    I was interested that the OP didn't put a question mark after the end of the thread title! Honestly - these days - first class LLB and LLM with Distinction and a disease from NYU with 100% grade marks and they don't know what a "?" is!


    I see more sensible posts on these boards from people who do not have English as their first language.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 13th Mar 18, 9:44 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    My objective opinion, based on my experience recruiting staff to investment banking is that you are coming across as arrogant and annoying.


    Your English is deteriorating further.

    I am pretty familiar with commercial activity, I am a trader in an investment bank.

    Would you like to send me your real CV? We pay graduates a pretty good starting wage.
    Originally posted by John-K
    The same poster, John-K, an 'oxbridge graduate' who called me a liar and a fantasist and questioned my qualifications, apparently has 2 different titles within finance.

    Earlier it was a position that recruited staff to investments banks.Now all of a sudden , he is a trader at an investment bank.

    I have no reason to lie, but you clearly do and have and actually have been caught red handed on this thread!!!!!
    Last edited by 2018d; 13-03-2018 at 9:53 PM.
    • zx81
    • By zx81 13th Mar 18, 9:55 PM
    • 16,800 Posts
    • 17,812 Thanks
    zx81
    That doesn't appear to be a contradiction.

    In business, most senior roles are also responsible for recruitment within their areas.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 13th Mar 18, 9:58 PM
    • 6,124 Posts
    • 29,494 Thanks
    bugslet
    That doesn't appear to be a contradiction.

    In business, most senior roles are also responsible for recruitment within their areas.
    Originally posted by zx81
    Indeed, my ops manager interviews candidates, it forms a very small part of his job description.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 13th Mar 18, 10:01 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    That doesn't appear to be a contradiction.

    In business, most senior roles are also responsible for recruitment within their areas.


    Absolutely not, Maybe in a corner shop yes ,but not in investment banks.

    Traders do not recruit staff - Fact.
    • zx81
    • By zx81 13th Mar 18, 10:04 PM
    • 16,800 Posts
    • 17,812 Thanks
    zx81
    I'm not sure I would describe major banks, insurers and high street retailers as corner shops.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 13th Mar 18, 10:06 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_investment_banks

    Here is a comprehensive list of Investment banks. Look up their processes on their websites.

    I cannot reason with people who have no understanding. You can call me arrogant now, I call a lot of people here ignorant.

    It is my fault, I should have listened to my gut and realised that the response of the email was not an outright rejection, rather potential that in the future there could be a possibility. And this is just a waiting game now, I let my anxiety get the better of me and set up for small minded predators.

    Good luck and good bye
    • zx81
    • By zx81 13th Mar 18, 10:09 PM
    • 16,800 Posts
    • 17,812 Thanks
    zx81

    It is my fault
    Originally posted by 2018d
    Don't worry. We all make mistakes.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 13th Mar 18, 10:10 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    I'm not sure I would describe major banks, insurers and high street retailers as corner shops.
    Originally posted by zx81
    Who said I was? Did you not understand the sarcasm. Anyway I'm going to fall down another rabbit hole. Please see the post below if you are interested in recruitment processes.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 13th Mar 18, 10:11 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    Don't worry. We all make mistakes.
    Originally posted by zx81
    Genuinely, feel so sorry for you.
    • zx81
    • By zx81 13th Mar 18, 10:14 PM
    • 16,800 Posts
    • 17,812 Thanks
    zx81
    feel so sorry
    Originally posted by 2018d
    It's ok, honestly.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 13th Mar 18, 10:18 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    It's ok, honestly.
    Originally posted by zx81
    Prime eg of a troll. I'll let you have the last word. Feel free to cut and paste out of context

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