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  • FIRST POST
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 10th Mar 18, 7:48 AM
    • 35Posts
    • 4Thanks
    2018d
    Is this a polite rejection
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:48 AM
    Is this a polite rejection 10th Mar 18 at 7:48 AM
    I re-trained last winter and have been speculatively cold calling companies to find work, even if it is initially unpaid. I had a one minute conversation with one of the 'decision makers' at a highly reputable firm. Below is the correspondence. I don't know what to make of it... is this a very polite rejection? Have I made a complete fool of myself?

    I sent this follow up email one week after the phone conversation in early December where he asked me to send over my resume.

    Hello,


    I sent a speculative enquiry (below)last week regarding an unpaid position.


    I wonder if you had a chance to look over my details.


    Please do advise me of your decision.


    Thanks


    Hi Sophia. Unfortunately we do not have any suitable openings at the current time. I will definitely keep your cv under reference for suitable junior roles in the near future.

    Best, Steve

    In mid-Feb I re-contacted him with this

    Hi Steve. I’m wondering, any Unpaid Junior roles? Anything I can do to better my chances?
    Best
    Sophia

    Response

    We really don’t have any positions at the moment Sophia, although I definitely admire your energy. If anything suitable comes along I will certainly be in touch.

    Best,Steve

    I really hope so and look forward to it. Because I have research that I would like to show you then.

    Best wishes Steve

    Sophia



    Is this all just a very polite, time wasting rejection? I have had rejections many, many times in the past but they are usually direct and to the point.eg you need more experience, try again in a few years, we look for xyz qualifications.

    I also included a sample of my work in the initial email. I know that my work is 'competent' for a newbie, as the institute I trained with actually offered me job which I rejected as I did not feel I would progress in a learning environment as I would in a real work situation.

    Im looking for experienced opinions so that I can get some sense of this or closure and move on.
Page 3
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 10th Mar 18, 8:52 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 3,422 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    This has to be a troll.

    No one can be be quite so oblivious in real life, can they?
    • JamesO
    • By JamesO 10th Mar 18, 8:57 PM
    • 356 Posts
    • 977 Thanks
    JamesO
    ____________
    Blue Lives Matter
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 10th Mar 18, 9:01 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    Now you are being utterly ridiculous.

    What do you think the rest of the thousands of graduates do?
    Originally posted by BorisThomson
    Oh the irony, look who's using 'overly flowery' language now

    I think English might be your second language
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 10th Mar 18, 10:18 PM
    • 3,627 Posts
    • 9,934 Thanks
    LilElvis
    English is my first and only language.Not that for any reason it should even be an issue.

    Funnily enough one of my 2 masters is in Public Relations (First Class ), and my work has been published in 10 national media outlets. And I secured subsequent work from those editors.

    Most employers are impressed by candidates who have personality. I know this because I have previously secured lucrative contracts from high paying employers. I mentioned earlier I even turned work down over Christmas

    you as 'an occasional languages teacher I am also interested in your use of language.' should have noticed my question - I have never had a rejection this 'polite', usually people are direct.

    there is debate on this very thread about that,

    And I again highlight, at no point was this Head under any obligation to respond back to me if he was irritated. Many corporate heads don't bother because they are too busy.
    I welcome constructive feedback, but this is now becoming collectively abusive in a personal sense and I will report any personal or insulting comments
    Originally posted by 2018d
    ...... and then you follow this up by insulting other members?
    • jungle jane
    • By jungle jane 10th Mar 18, 11:08 PM
    • 609 Posts
    • 1,773 Thanks
    jungle jane

    All reputable firms have a research and development department

    Most reputable firms hire exclusively from Russell Group Universities and actively state it as an entry requirement for any applications
    Originally posted by 2018d
    Neither of these are true I'm afraid...especially the first.
    • MalMonroe
    • By MalMonroe 11th Mar 18, 12:17 AM
    • 68 Posts
    • 60 Thanks
    MalMonroe
    I think this whole thing is a wind up. What a weird question. Why would anyone chase an unpaid (unavailable) position so avidly? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And yet . . . the interest it has generated. I've changed my question : is this a thread that's been started as a bet? Good on you! Fooled everyone. And it's not even April Fools day yet. PS I also graduated from a Russell Group Uni and I don't believe you've done more than one Masters degree. Why would you? They're expensive and the natural progression from an MA is a PhD. What a time-wasting load of nonsense. And I mean that in the kindest sense.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 11th Mar 18, 12:30 AM
    • 3,398 Posts
    • 4,972 Thanks
    powerful_Rogue

    • prowla
    • By prowla 11th Mar 18, 5:16 AM
    • 9,819 Posts
    • 7,910 Thanks
    prowla
    Well, I would take it at face value, rather than reading any "code" into it.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 11th Mar 18, 8:24 AM
    • 3,161 Posts
    • 6,275 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Well, I would take it at face value, rather than reading any "code" into it.
    Originally posted by prowla
    Yep, it all makes sense now, since we found the OP has a Masters Degree from a Russell Group Uni (gasps) in Public Relations. In other words someone has wasted however much time and money getting a degree in B.S. Accounts for the fact they can seem neither to understand nor to use plain English.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Ja7188
    • By Ja7188 11th Mar 18, 11:20 AM
    • 171 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    Ja7188
    Yet another thread in which the OP shows a total lack of interest in the views they have sought by coming here in the first place (and in this case, appears to be presenting the views of a friend of hers as sufficient to invalidate the views of others here) and lashes out at posters who make comments she doesn't like. On top of all that, she then outright insults others.

    At the end of the day, none of us really know what Steve meant - he could have been genuinely irritated, but he could equally have written that e-mail quickly and without reading it back before sending (not that he was under any obligation to do so).

    The OP needs to forget about this company and take it into her head that qualifications don't get you very far if you don't pair them with the right attitude and ethic - and then crack on with the job search in a considered manner, noting that this may mean accepting positions with limited progression opportunities in order to build up experience.
    • BrassicWoman
    • By BrassicWoman 11th Mar 18, 11:24 AM
    • 1,626 Posts
    • 6,741 Thanks
    BrassicWoman
    I have a Russell Group masters degree and you get a distinction, not a first. First, 2:1 etc are usually (not 100%) undergrad...

    It also doesn't make me a genius, it just means I could do all of the assignments. I still need interpersonal skills etc for work, and it doesn't measure them.
    Jan 18 grocery challenge £105.13/ £150
    • StaffieTerrier
    • By StaffieTerrier 11th Mar 18, 11:28 AM
    • 321 Posts
    • 545 Thanks
    StaffieTerrier
    I'd love to think that this was a wind-up but I've worked in a department where one individual was relentless in their mission to work for us. They'd applied for a job with us, was offered the job on the condition of good references, then had the job offer withdrawn when poor references arrived (they'd work within the same institution and the referee contacted the chair of the interview panel to say don't hire this person). Even having a job offer withdrawn didn't stop that person constantly applying for jobs, asking about unpaid work and writing to senior members of the department begging for an opportunity. We also run training courses and she attended every single one. It took 5 years for her to finally get the hint. She works in an allied field now that has links to our department.

    Sometimes you need to know when to give up.
    • Ja7188
    • By Ja7188 11th Mar 18, 11:33 AM
    • 171 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    Ja7188
    I still need interpersonal skills etc for work, and it doesn't measure them.
    Originally posted by BrassicWoman
    Exactly - and this is the point that so many people with high-level qualifications seem to forget and then wonder why they don't progress as quickly as they think they should.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 12th Mar 18, 9:42 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    Anyway, thanks everyone for the comments and advice. I appreciate it, whatever your opinions may be, and however questionably you may phrase them. It has been an eye opener, to say the least.

    At this point if Steve contacted me in the future with a position, which I now gather is highly unlikely, I don't even think I'd want it =(

    Incidentally, I received yet another rejection this morning from a model and talent agency I sent my photos to for part time catalogue/ stock photos work and wanted to share it with you.



    Hello Sophia,

    Your photos were carefully considered by all the agents here at Elite, but I!!!8217;m afraid the answer is a no on this occasion. When taking on a future model it is important that the booking team reach a unanimous decision regarding the model's potential, and unfortunately we don!!!8217;t feel you have the right look for Elite .

    If you would like to try other agencies we strongly suggest you only approach those on the Association of Model Agencies (AMA) register. Please also be aware that a reputable agency will never ask you for money up front.

    We wish you the best of luck for the future.

    All the best

    Frederic

    A huge contrast.

    I see no scope for ambiguity whatsoever in their response; it is polite but still honest and gives closure. It kills any possibility of unfounded hope with this particular agency.
    This is what I personally call a rejection.

    Thanks again and good luck
    • zx81
    • By zx81 12th Mar 18, 9:49 AM
    • 17,227 Posts
    • 18,308 Thanks
    zx81
    That's because they know they would never take you on as you're not suitable to work for them, so there was no point in them keeping you under consideration.

    Steve's situation was that he may be able to use you in future, hence keeping your application warm.

    Both gave the appropriate answer for the circumstances.
    • Ja7188
    • By Ja7188 12th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    • 171 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    Ja7188
    Anyway, thanks everyone for the comments and advice. I appreciate it, whatever your opinions may be, and however questionably you may phrase them. It has been an eye opener, to say the least.

    At this point if Steve contacted me in the future with a position, which I now gather is highly unlikely, I don't even think I'd want it =(

    Incidentally, I received yet another rejection this morning from a model and talent agency I sent my photos to for part time catalogue/ stock photos work and wanted to share it with you.



    Hello Sophia,

    Your photos were carefully considered by all the agents here at Elite, but I!!!8217;m afraid the answer is a no on this occasion. When taking on a future model it is important that the booking team reach a unanimous decision regarding the model's potential, and unfortunately we don!!!8217;t feel you have the right look for Elite .

    If you would like to try other agencies we strongly suggest you only approach those on the Association of Model Agencies (AMA) register. Please also be aware that a reputable agency will never ask you for money up front.

    We wish you the best of luck for the future.

    All the best

    Frederic

    A huge contrast.

    I see no scope for ambiguity whatsoever in their response; it is polite but still honest and gives closure. It kills any possibility of unfounded hope with this particular agency.
    This is what I personally call a rejection.

    Thanks again and good luck
    Originally posted by 2018d
    Hilarious.

    So if Steve, who (as many people have pointed out) has been very pleasant to you and even paid you a compliment, asks you to interview in a few months' time then you're probably going to reject it on the basis that he shouldn't have "left you in limbo" and because the company didn't work to YOUR timescales?

    I really hope you're not trying to justify your viewpoint on the company that Steve works for (which pretty much everyone on here disagrees with) on the basis of a rejection letter from a modelling agency...
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 12th Mar 18, 7:49 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    I want to answer your questions but I'm not sure what you mean?

    [I]So if Steve, who (as many people have pointed out) has been[I] very pleasant[/I] to you and even paid you a compliment[/I], asks you to interview in a few months' time then you're probably going to reject it on the basis that he shouldn't have "left you in limbo" and because the company didn't work to YOUR timescales?

    I don't dispute he has been pleasant and good at communicating with me, which he is obviously under no obligation to ... but for what????!!! There is no offer of a job or possible time frame, its not like it has been harsh and flat out said no and then tried to soften the blow with being politely signing off. I think if someone is starting out and eager, to the point of willing to work unpaid to secure experience, its better to be a bit upfront. As far as I see there is no real promise of anything, and if anything it is probably a standard rejection for now and the future. At least thats the impression I have got from the thread.

    even paid you a compliment,

    Im not sure which compliment you are referring to.... is it 'I admire your spirit'? because Im sure someone else on the thread said he was being sarcastic with that

    probably going to reject it on the basis that he shouldn't have "left you in limbo" and because the company didn't work to YOUR timescales?

    I might feel apprehensive about it. only because I have misunderstood so much of what he has said in this v. brief interaction. But you are right, there is a bit of my pride and ego that has been bruised here which I should find a way to overcome. Especially if someone bothers to keep me in mind.

    I really hope you're not trying to justify your viewpoint on the company that Steve works for (which pretty much everyone on here disagrees with)

    Really unclear what you mean about this, not disagreeing trying to understand
    Last edited by 2018d; 12-03-2018 at 8:42 PM.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 12th Mar 18, 8:12 PM
    • 8,499 Posts
    • 6,270 Thanks
    pmduk
    I still need interpersonal skills etc for work, and it doesn't measure them.
    Originally posted by BrassicWoman
    The OP has already demonstrated that Russell Group graduates possess no interpersonal skills, having had to come onto an internet forum to get an email analysed, then disagree with most of the responses.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 12th Mar 18, 9:11 PM
    • 5,211 Posts
    • 6,475 Thanks
    theoretica
    If you want my reading, the first email back was fairly positive. Steve didn't have anything for you at that time, but thought you might be a fit for the company in future. I think then contacting again was a mistake, he had said he would contact you if anything came up, so by pushing you are implying you don't trust him to do what he said.

    Unless these companies are charities then having you work for free would be illegal, as has been pointed out, so that eager offer becomes more of a mark of desperation than an attraction for an employer.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 12th Mar 18, 11:26 PM
    • 1,894 Posts
    • 2,495 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    The OP has already demonstrated that Russell Group graduates possess no interpersonal skills,...
    Originally posted by pmduk
    Oi, mush. Some of us do! :-)

    PS: I wonder if anyone can guess which Russell Group uni from the above reply. It may take some knowledge of regional linguistic differences. :-)
    Last edited by silverwhistle; 12-03-2018 at 11:27 PM. Reason: spoll
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