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    • melbury
    • By melbury 9th Mar 18, 6:00 PM
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    melbury
    Pet Behaviourist costs
    • #1
    • 9th Mar 18, 6:00 PM
    Pet Behaviourist costs 9th Mar 18 at 6:00 PM
    We feel that our dog would really benefit from seeing a professional behaviourist and was surprised to find out that our pet insurance would cover this provided he is referred by the vet.

    However, I am a bit concerned that if we do claim the costs this will then count against him for the rest of his life (he is only eleven months old) and result in high premiums going forward. Personally I don't see why it should as it is not an illness and he is not at all aggressive, just completely fearful of other dogs.

    I just wondered if anybody has ever claimed for this and, if so, did it result in increased premiums?
    Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time

Page 1
    • calicocat
    • By calicocat 9th Mar 18, 7:35 PM
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    calicocat
    • #2
    • 9th Mar 18, 7:35 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Mar 18, 7:35 PM
    I would think this would count as it will be seen as treatment .

    What is he doing at 11 months old that is so out of the norm ? That is still a young dog.
    Yep...still at it, working out how to retire early........ Going to have to rethink that scenario as have been screwed over by the company. A work in progress.
    • melbury
    • By melbury 9th Mar 18, 8:28 PM
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    melbury
    • #3
    • 9th Mar 18, 8:28 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Mar 18, 8:28 PM
    I would think this would count as it will be seen as treatment .

    What is he doing at 11 months old that is so out of the norm ? That is still a young dog.
    Originally posted by calicocat
    As I mentioned in my post, he is absolutely terrified of other dogs, despite attending two lots of puppy classes. If he sees a dog coming he just lies down and won't move until they have gone past, even if they are on the other side of a field. The only reason we can think of is that he missed on the important socialisation period because our vet said he mustn't leave the property until 1-2 weeks after his second vaccination. We have always had dogs, but this is the first time we have had a puppy without an older dog being here, which I am sure makes a tremendous difference in terms of giving confidence and "showing them the ropes."

    On Monday after being approached by a friendly Labrador he managed to slip his harness and bolted for home - which involved crossing and running for some way down a quite busy road. We don't let him off the lead on walks because his recall is not good and if he saw a dog he would be gone.
    Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time

    • calicocat
    • By calicocat 9th Mar 18, 10:17 PM
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    calicocat
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 18, 10:17 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 18, 10:17 PM
    As I mentioned in my post, he is absolutely terrified of other dogs, despite attending two lots of puppy classes. If he sees a dog coming he just lies down and won't move until they have gone past, even if they are on the other side of a field. The only reason we can think of is that he missed on the important socialisation period because our vet said he mustn't leave the property until 1-2 weeks after his second vaccination. We have always had dogs, but this is the first time we have had a puppy without an older dog being here, which I am sure makes a tremendous difference in terms of giving confidence and "showing them the ropes."

    On Monday after being approached by a friendly Labrador he managed to slip his harness and bolted for home - which involved crossing and running for some way down a quite busy road. We don't let him off the lead on walks because his recall is not good and if he saw a dog he would be gone.
    Originally posted by melbury

    If you have a good vet they may be able to give you some pointers.
    I had a GSD pup like this years ago. The vet said she thought she had been bullied within the pack from the beginning. She said it usually stems when they are all feeding and just spreads to all other areas quickly.

    She was hard to handle, and the fear then turned to aggression as she got to be about a year, but you could see it stemmed from fear.

    Lots of training classes and then agility classes helped her hugely and she was eventually fine off the lead and much less fearful. I did this constantly for over two years though twice a week mainly.

    I also dog sat friends CAV puppy. Absolute little charmer , but utterly terrified of everything around him for some reason no-one found out.

    I made him go everywhere with me when I had him, even in the car that he hated just to get a loaf of bread. At around 18 months he just came into himself . I donít think it was any one thing that did it, he just took longer to grow up and be comfortable around life.

    Do you have a friend with a very calm friendly dog that could come around, leave them to it in a room for a while and go into the garden out of sight. That may eventually make him understand he is safe.

    Bless, itís horrible when they are like that.
    Yep...still at it, working out how to retire early........ Going to have to rethink that scenario as have been screwed over by the company. A work in progress.
    • melbury
    • By melbury 10th Mar 18, 10:36 AM
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    melbury
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:36 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:36 AM
    If you have a good vet they may be able to give you some pointers.
    I had a GSD pup like this years ago. The vet said she thought she had been bullied within the pack from the beginning. She said it usually stems when they are all feeding and just spreads to all other areas quickly.

    She was hard to handle, and the fear then turned to aggression as she got to be about a year, but you could see it stemmed from fear.

    Lots of training classes and then agility classes helped her hugely and she was eventually fine off the lead and much less fearful. I did this constantly for over two years though twice a week mainly.

    I also dog sat friends CAV puppy. Absolute little charmer , but utterly terrified of everything around him for some reason no-one found out.

    I made him go everywhere with me when I had him, even in the car that he hated just to get a loaf of bread. At around 18 months he just came into himself . I donít think it was any one thing that did it, he just took longer to grow up and be comfortable around life.

    Do you have a friend with a very calm friendly dog that could come around, leave them to it in a room for a while and go into the garden out of sight. That may eventually make him understand he is safe.

    Bless, itís horrible when they are like that.
    Originally posted by calicocat
    Thanks for sharing your experience, it does give me hope!

    No I don't know anybody with a calm dog and honestly don't think it would help him at the moment. A couple who had another pup from the same litter called in last summer when they down this way and he was absolutely terrified of his own brother - just hid away and wouldn't go near him. It is very sad.

    He is not at all aggressive to people or dogs, but has grabbed me and OH a couple of times if we are doing something that he doesn't like - e.g. using sole of slipper to pick up dog hair, ironing, dusting!

    Another trait we simply have to get sorted out is barking - sometimes he just won't stop and it nearly drives us mad
    Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time

    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 10th Mar 18, 4:35 PM
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    sheramber
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 4:35 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 4:35 PM
    It sounds like you do really need professional help with more than fear of other dogs.

    Insurance cover for a behaviourist is usually limited to a set amount. After that there would be no cover for a behavioural problem and maybe no cover for anything that could be related to it, such as him attacking another dog etc.

    If there is exclusion then it shouldn't affect the further premiums.
    • melbury
    • By melbury 10th Mar 18, 7:02 PM
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    melbury
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:02 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:02 PM
    It sounds like you do really need professional help with more than fear of other dogs.

    Insurance cover for a behaviourist is usually limited to a set amount. After that there would be no cover for a behavioural problem and maybe no cover for anything that could be related to it, such as him attacking another dog etc.

    If there is exclusion then it shouldn't affect the further premiums.
    Originally posted by sheramber
    He is not at all aggressive to dogs or people.
    Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time

    • Jaymie kate
    • By Jaymie kate 11th Mar 18, 12:39 PM
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    Jaymie kate
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 12:39 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 12:39 PM
    At less than a year your dog is still too young I would think and just needs some training which you can provide. Watch youtube videos of popular dog trainers like Caesar Milan. Extremely aggressive dogs are more of a concern and unless your dog exhibits this I don't think professional help would be necessary.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 11th Mar 18, 1:01 PM
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    sheramber
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:01 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:01 PM
    He is not at all aggressive to dogs or people.
    Originally posted by melbury
    Maybe not yet but you say he has grabbed you and your husband when doing something he didn't like. That could easily escalate to someone else.

    You say he ran away when another dog approached. One day he may be very stressed and attack rather than run away.

    Regardless , it is no joy to walk a dog when neither you nor he can relax.

    For your own sake and his sake you need to find professional help. The longer it goes on , the more ingrained the behaviour becomes and the more difficult it is to change.

    Don't rely on online videos particularly Cesar Milan. You need advice from someone who can see you and your dog together.
    • calicocat
    • By calicocat 11th Mar 18, 8:56 PM
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    calicocat
    Hopefully he sounds more like the CAV I looked after. He was scared of the ruddy tv and the people on it, hoover, cooker door banging, the car, people in the street, all other dogs....pretty much everything in one way or another. His parents couldnít get him to pee in the garden as he was scared of being in there, wouldnít really eat much. They asked me to go over to get him to pee a few times when they first got him. They figured he didnít like them , she would ring up in tears saying the dog hated her, and asked me to take him (wished I had actually as he was super cute, but work commitments didnít allow for it). He just didnít trust life , I think he was missing the rest of the dogs the breeder had and was missing being in a pack and felt kinda lost without it. He was around 10 months old when they got him.

    I was dog sitting at their house the first time as they figured he was too scared to be out of the house when they first got him and wasnít eating anything. He decided he did eat when I had a pizza, started barking for some.


    When I had him a couple of times a week the days were literally about him. We did everything together, lots of things he didnít want to do to get him used to stuff. He grew to like the tv as I found he liked Born Free , and Beverly Hills Chihuahua. . Learnt the noise of cooker was a fab thing as it meant chicken was coming out of it. The grill fan wasnít scary once he knew it produced bacon or sausages.

    When other dogs were around on walks I ran around like an idiot playing with his ball shouting and screaming his name, to focus on what we were doing not the other dogs around. He barked constantly when out on a walk, which I felt was just extreme stress.

    I carried him into local shops if I was buying one thing so he got used to people, noise, peopleís random movements etc.

    It took quite a while, but eventually he just got less stressed with everything, stopped focusing on his stress and started enjoying things. So my only advice is keep going and do as much as possible . If you do something he doesnít like with a sausage in your hand he may change his mind.... . Iím not meaning feed him loads of sausage, just a tiny bit and not every time, but he will focus on the sausage or a toy , and forget the bad stuff going through his head with luck .

    Hopefully this may help, or worth a try anyhow before needing a behaviourist.
    Yep...still at it, working out how to retire early........ Going to have to rethink that scenario as have been screwed over by the company. A work in progress.
    • melbury
    • By melbury 14th Mar 18, 8:02 PM
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    melbury
    Hopefully he sounds more like the CAV I looked after. He was scared of the ruddy tv and the people on it, hoover, cooker door banging, the car, people in the street, all other dogs....pretty much everything in one way or another. His parents couldnít get him to pee in the garden as he was scared of being in there, wouldnít really eat much. They asked me to go over to get him to pee a few times when they first got him. They figured he didnít like them , she would ring up in tears saying the dog hated her, and asked me to take him (wished I had actually as he was super cute, but work commitments didnít allow for it). He just didnít trust life , I think he was missing the rest of the dogs the breeder had and was missing being in a pack and felt kinda lost without it. He was around 10 months old when they got him.

    I was dog sitting at their house the first time as they figured he was too scared to be out of the house when they first got him and wasnít eating anything. He decided he did eat when I had a pizza, started barking for some.


    When I had him a couple of times a week the days were literally about him. We did everything together, lots of things he didnít want to do to get him used to stuff. He grew to like the tv as I found he liked Born Free , and Beverly Hills Chihuahua. . Learnt the noise of cooker was a fab thing as it meant chicken was coming out of it. The grill fan wasnít scary once he knew it produced bacon or sausages.

    When other dogs were around on walks I ran around like an idiot playing with his ball shouting and screaming his name, to focus on what we were doing not the other dogs around. He barked constantly when out on a walk, which I felt was just extreme stress.

    I carried him into local shops if I was buying one thing so he got used to people, noise, peopleís random movements etc.

    It took quite a while, but eventually he just got less stressed with everything, stopped focusing on his stress and started enjoying things. So my only advice is keep going and do as much as possible . If you do something he doesnít like with a sausage in your hand he may change his mind.... . Iím not meaning feed him loads of sausage, just a tiny bit and not every time, but he will focus on the sausage or a toy , and forget the bad stuff going through his head with luck .

    Hopefully this may help, or worth a try anyhow before needing a behaviourist.
    Originally posted by calicocat
    Thank you for such a helpful reply.

    He is a certainly a strange one - not at all scared of vacuum cleaner, TV, hairdryer, but terrified of the steam iron He has to put in a separate room when ironing is being done as he just goes beserk leaping up and grabbing at your hand (very hard sometimes).

    When out on a walk he is not at all scared of any traffic - tractors pulling big trailers, buses, lorries, etc. However, if he sees a dog coming (or even a cat) then unless we can get him across to the other side of the road he just lies down and won't move until they disappear from view. He is even worse when not walking along a road in that a dog can basically be on the horizon at the other end of a field and he just hits the ground and won't budge. It is so strange.
    Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time

    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 15th Mar 18, 6:10 PM
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    teddysmum
    At less than a year your dog is still too young I would think and just needs some training which you can provide. Watch youtube videos of popular dog trainers like Caesar Milan. Extremely aggressive dogs are more of a concern and unless your dog exhibits this I don't think professional help would be necessary.
    Originally posted by Jaymie kate


    Caesar Milan has a bad reputation for using cruel methods; the last thing a timid dog needs. all training should be done with kindness.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 15th Mar 18, 7:16 PM
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    teddysmum
    I suggest looking for a qualified APDT member who will run individual classes then integrate a dog into a wider group.


    One, whose classes I used (no problems), turned a squealing border collie, who'd spent two years in a crate at the end of a framer's drive into a friendly dog who loved agility, ending up competing and turned a GSD, due for euthanasia because of perceived aggression, into a gentle dog who was used in schools, to educate children on how to behave around dogs.
    Last edited by teddysmum; 15-03-2018 at 7:19 PM.
    • calicocat
    • By calicocat 16th Mar 18, 5:30 PM
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    calicocat
    This is how CAV was with other animals. I have a not too friendly cat, and he was in my house scared of everything, plus stopped and barked constantly if he saw another dog,as you say on the horizon too. His way was to bark lots and jump in the air, your dog is to fall flat, same thing (uncertainty). Plus stick to me due to fear of said cat even moving.

    CAV initially stuck to me like glue due to psycho cat in my house and refused to go on a walk as he was scared . I found like I said when I could see it coming on the horizon was to jump around with a ball , occasionally treats if he focused on me not the stress, and basically try to ignore the stress trigger.

    Re : iron.
    What does he really like doing. Which is his favourite room/ toy. What I did with CAV was what he was uncomfortable with, I moved to an area he was .
    I picked what he was comfortable with and made him think things could be ok in that area even though what was happening wasnít his comfort zone. In the end, his need to feel ok with me and be with me, plus have fun overrode his fear.


    I donít think personally this needs intervention right now from outside , I think this is doable with you.

    I had never met a dog like CAV before, it isnít easy,and you worry so much for them, and to be frank we donít always understand them . It is a learning curve, but when you both get it, itís great.
    Yep...still at it, working out how to retire early........ Going to have to rethink that scenario as have been screwed over by the company. A work in progress.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 1st Apr 18, 1:09 AM
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    teddysmum
    Easy ways to stop a dog simply by barking at others, you can just use an Ultrasonic Dog Bark Control to stop a dog barking by seeing to others would result in to easy tricks for a dog behavior..
    Originally posted by doglethercollar


    Most of your post makes little sense, but though not a cruel as a shock collar, a high pitched noise can be very distressing for dogs.


    Like the trick of surprise (eg dropping a can of stones near the dog) these methods can lead to problems with another dog present, as the 'innocent' dog feels it's being punished, too, but either doesn't now why or assumes that its behaviour is inappropriate ,leading to a change in that dog's manners.
    • Jojo the Tightfisted
    • By Jojo the Tightfisted 1st Apr 18, 1:22 PM
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    Jojo the Tightfisted
    Is he a Gun Dog or Pastoral breed? The lying down sounds a bit like a confused marking game/prey response, as does the taking your hand in his mouth. If he's got all these instincts buzzing around in his head, but doesn't know what to do with them, it's not entirely surprising that he overloads at times - and the steam iron bubbles and hisses like a snake and stuff comes out of it, whereas the vacuum cleaner is just another motorised thing that gets pushed around.


    With the insurance, if you look at it another way, he's got a mental illness - which is why it would be counted. And whilst he isn't aggressive, he's so fearful that if he were trapped in a scary situation, he could respond by becoming so out of fear - the prospect of him taking another person by the hand and their completely overreacting (because they've just found themselves with a dog 'going beserk' and then reporting an attack to the police and suing for damages - there are people like that out there -causing a car crash through running onto a road or potentially scaring a horse that has scared him or is accompanied by a dog and throws its rider, is also very expensive, so he does present an increased risk to Insurers.




    It's worth dealing with it now, not just for those reasons but, as you say, he needs to be happy, even if it does affect his insurance premiums for the rest of his life (assuming you go through insurance and the vet and don't keep it quiet, something which I certainly wouldn't recommend, but could be hard to trace).
    I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die: I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by.

    Yup you are officially Rock n Roll
    Originally posted by colinw
    • melbury
    • By melbury 5th Apr 18, 7:54 PM
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    melbury
    Is he a Gun Dog or Pastoral breed? The lying down sounds a bit like a confused marking game/prey response, as does the taking your hand in his mouth. If he's got all these instincts buzzing around in his head, but doesn't know what to do with them, it's not entirely surprising that he overloads at times - and the steam iron bubbles and hisses like a snake and stuff comes out of it, whereas the vacuum cleaner is just another motorised thing that gets pushed around.


    With the insurance, if you look at it another way, he's got a mental illness - which is why it would be counted. And whilst he isn't aggressive, he's so fearful that if he were trapped in a scary situation, he could respond by becoming so out of fear - the prospect of him taking another person by the hand and their completely overreacting (because they've just found themselves with a dog 'going beserk' and then reporting an attack to the police and suing for damages - there are people like that out there -causing a car crash through running onto a road or potentially scaring a horse that has scared him or is accompanied by a dog and throws its rider, is also very expensive, so he does present an increased risk to Insurers.




    It's worth dealing with it now, not just for those reasons but, as you say, he needs to be happy, even if it does affect his insurance premiums for the rest of his life (assuming you go through insurance and the vet and don't keep it quiet, something which I certainly wouldn't recommend, but could be hard to trace).
    Originally posted by Jojo the Tightfisted
    He is a very nervous Bearded Collie

    We will take him to a behaviourist who has been recommended, but have decided not to claim on insurance.
    Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time

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