Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • JSCB
    • By JSCB 9th Mar 18, 4:00 PM
    • 44Posts
    • 12Thanks
    JSCB
    Part Worn Tyres and Imbalanced Brakes
    • #1
    • 9th Mar 18, 4:00 PM
    Part Worn Tyres and Imbalanced Brakes 9th Mar 18 at 4:00 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I took my car in the week to National tyres and it failed its MOT on brake lights, worn front tyres on their inside edge due to alignment and a brake imbalance on the front axle.

    However, I took it this afternoon to a local garage at the end of my street to see what they say and to get a quote to compre to on getting the works put right.

    However, after having it up on the ramp the mechanic there has told me he couldnt fail it on its tyres as they're only worn on the very edge (outside the 3/4's) and their centres are still perfect (they're not that old!), he also said although he's not checked the balance of the brakes again himself, the pads and discs are still fine so he'd pass it on that as long as I dont feel it pulling to one side when I drive it which I dont.

    He said he could get the brake lights fixed (it needs a new brake light switch) tonight, as well as some welding that needs doing underneath.

    He said I would just need to keep an eye on my tyres then, and perhaps in 6 months or so go back and get them changed, when they could then also have a better look at what might be causing the brakes to be imbalanced as well.

    Does this sound about right? I've told him to go ahead.

    I also asked him whether I should get the tyres realigned now back to how they should be to make them wear evenly and last a bit longer but he said with the way they are he wouldn't bother and would just leave them until they're compleatly ruined and then replace and realign then. Not sure whether this is because getting them realigned would cost say 40 but only gain an extra month on their (now) short life, or because the way theirnworn would just pull them back out of alignment anyway.

    Again, is this right or should I get them realigned now anyway?

    Also, if my brake pads and discs look fine from the outside, should I still get someone to have a look at them to see whether they just need cleaning or what could be the imbalance now to potentially save the pads and discs he said are fine, or just leave it like he suggested until the tyres are worn compleatley when they can take it all apart and have a good look then, and perhaps replace the brake pads and discs if need be then.

    At the moment im glad my car will be back on the road again asap and without giving in to National who have called me several times since trying to pressure me into booking in for new tyres!! However, I am worried I could of missed something or especially with the brakes do damage by not getting them looked at more deeply now (although he says at basic inspection they're fine).

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
Page 1
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 9th Mar 18, 5:14 PM
    • 6,944 Posts
    • 5,707 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    • #2
    • 9th Mar 18, 5:14 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Mar 18, 5:14 PM
    I am worried I could of missed something or especially with the brakes do damage by not getting them looked at more deeply now (although he says at basic inspection they're fine).
    If they look alright they must be fine although he suggest waiting six months before looking for the reason for the imbalance?

    I suspect you got a strict mot from National tyres and very casual one from your local garage.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.

    Never trust a newbie with a rtb tale.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 9th Mar 18, 5:49 PM
    • 1,170 Posts
    • 433 Thanks
    sevenhills
    • #3
    • 9th Mar 18, 5:49 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Mar 18, 5:49 PM
    I also asked him whether I should get the tyres realigned now back to how they should be to make them wear evenly and last a bit longer but he said with the way they are he wouldn't bother and would just leave them until they're compleatly ruined and then replace and realign then. Not sure whether this is because getting them realigned would cost say 40 but only gain an extra month on their (now) short life, or because the way their worn would just pull them back out of alignment anyway.

    Again, is this right or should I get them realigned now anyway?
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
    Originally posted by JSCB
    I would get them 'aligned' now, I assume by that you mean tracking, 40 is on the high side.

    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 9th Mar 18, 6:44 PM
    • 13,533 Posts
    • 8,596 Thanks
    arcon5
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 18, 6:44 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 18, 6:44 PM
    You can't see a brake imbalance by just looking at the pads and discs
    • Jackmydad
    • By Jackmydad 9th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    • 2,467 Posts
    • 7,354 Thanks
    Jackmydad
    • #5
    • 9th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    Did you get another MOT done by this second guy?
    Because if you're taking it back to the first one, they might not accept what the other says.
    Not putting it on the brake tester sounds a bit too casual if it was another MOT.
    The brakes shouldn't give different readings.
    It shouldn't pass an MOT if they're outside the requirements.
    I'd want to know why they are different. And get it put right ASAP.
    If the tyre is badly scrubbed on the edge of the tread, I'd change it / them, and get the tracking done.
    "Luck happens where hard work meets opportunity"
    • Noree
    • By Noree 10th Mar 18, 12:08 AM
    • 105 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Noree
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:08 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:08 AM
    I wouldn not get anything done and appeal the test. It seems the guy at National Tyres is putting the MOT into disrepute by failing where he shouldnt with regards to the tyres. Being National tyres, it seems they are trying to up sell! This is massively frowned upon by DVSA.

    This occurrence on tyres is all too common and all MOT testers should have trained themselves on this area as it is a mandatory requirement for the time being.

    If you want to, you can appeal here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/613555/complain-about-an-mot-vt17.pdf
    Last edited by Noree; 10-03-2018 at 12:12 AM.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 10th Mar 18, 9:18 AM
    • 1,170 Posts
    • 433 Thanks
    sevenhills
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:18 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 9:18 AM
    Hi everyone,

    I took my car in the week to National tyres and it failed its MOT on brake lights, worn front tyres on their inside edge due to alignment and a brake imbalance on the front axle.
    Originally posted by JSCB
    If you just want to let them know you have been wronged; send an email to head office about your tyres.

    • bufferz
    • By bufferz 10th Mar 18, 11:58 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    bufferz
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 11:58 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 18, 11:58 AM
    You can't see a brake imbalance by just looking at the pads and discs
    Originally posted by arcon5
    Exactly, my last mot had a frozen rear caliper, but the pads/ disks were fine visually. Only the rolling road showed it up
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Mar 18, 12:09 PM
    • 17,360 Posts
    • 15,701 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:09 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 18, 12:09 PM
    The MOT test standard for tyres is the exact same as the legal minimum.
    Reason for rejection - The primary grooves of the tread pattern are not at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band comprising:
    the central three-quarters of the breadth of tread, and
    round the entire outer circumference of the tyre.
    by Tester's manual
    If they're even close enough to that to be a realistic cause for argument, then they're shagged. Replace them.

    If they've worn unevenly, then the suspension needs investigation, probably the tracking.

    The tester used a brake testing machine which measured the efficiency of the brakes on rollers, and compared them to the measured weight of the vehicle. This mechanic had a quick look at the discs and pads. Which do you think is more accurate?
    • JSCB
    • By JSCB 10th Mar 18, 1:41 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    JSCB
    Have taken what you've all said onboard and on one hand I'm worried about the things that were picked up, but on the other, I do feel like National were trying heavily to sell me another set of new tyres. I was also conscious that neither National nor the Main dealer could get anything sorted before next week.

    With all that in mind, I haven't been back to National (out of principle of their hard selling really) and have had the MOT redone at my local which it's passed, had the brake light switch replaced and the welding underneath done. So at least I'm back on the road now!

    However, still conscious of the brakes and tyres, I'm going to take it to a family friends garage (they're not commercial at all, mainly do track cars and the like, so not looking to sell or anything) and have them take apart and check out the brakes for me. Also opposite them is a tyre place, which is highly recommended, so I can pop it in there to get the tyres properly checked (and possibly replaced if need be) and the tracking realigned.

    But at least I can do these things in my own time now, without the MOT date on my back and the sales people knowing it. I feel like National failed it on those things and then were heavily pushing for me go back there to have the works done, while the local garage wasn't to bothered and was happy to pass it of with fixing the easy essentials (brake lights, etc), as he knew that would get my custom.

    Neither is great really and no wonder I'm wary of cars and mechanics! Hopefully will be sorted though, thanks for all your advice
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Mar 18, 1:44 PM
    • 17,360 Posts
    • 15,701 Thanks
    AdrianC
    I would say "If you don't agree with their MOT, appeal it" - https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/problems-with-your-test-result - but if you've had the work done, it's too late.
    • Jackmydad
    • By Jackmydad 10th Mar 18, 5:40 PM
    • 2,467 Posts
    • 7,354 Thanks
    Jackmydad
    The MOT test standard for tyres is the exact same as the legal minimum.


    If they're even close enough to that to be a realistic cause for argument, then they're shagged. Replace them.

    If they've worn unevenly, then the suspension needs investigation, probably the tracking.

    The tester used a brake testing machine which measured the efficiency of the brakes on rollers, and compared them to the measured weight of the vehicle. This mechanic had a quick look at the discs and pads. Which do you think is more accurate?
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    And 3/4 of the width of the tyre is a lot of the tyre width. On an roughly 8 inch wide tyre (195 or whatever) you'e got an inch on either edge that can be under the limit.
    I don't want to have to argue what 3/4 of the width is. If the edges are under, as said as far as I'm concerned I agree. The tyre is shagged.
    As said there are numerous reasons for tyre wear apart from tracking adjustment. If my tyres were wearing unevenly I'd wonder why long before they were worn out. But I look at mine regularly. . .

    Funny thing. I had a look at the brake pedal on my car the other day. It looks OK to me, so the brakes must be OK. . .
    "Luck happens where hard work meets opportunity"
    • oldagetraveller
    • By oldagetraveller 11th Mar 18, 11:29 AM
    • 3,095 Posts
    • 1,607 Thanks
    oldagetraveller
    "As said there are numerous reasons for tyre wear apart from tracking adjustment."

    e.g. under or over inflation.
    Did you hear about the politician who had a backside transplant? It rejected him.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 11th Mar 18, 3:15 PM
    • 4,350 Posts
    • 3,821 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    And 3/4 of the width of the tyre is a lot of the tyre width. On an roughly 8 inch wide tyre (195 or whatever) you'e got an inch on either edge that can be under the limit.
    Originally posted by Jackmydad
    It's not quite that simple because, for legal & MOT purposes, the only part of a tread pattern that counts is any grooves cut to full depth originally - those are the ones with the treadwear indicators in them.

    On almost all modern tyres that means only the 3 or 4 deep grooves running round the circumference actually count for measurement because the shoulders are shallower to start with. Which means the shoulders can usually be scrubbed bald all the way up to the edge of the first (deep circumferential) groove and the tyre remain legal even if that's well inside the centre 3/4 of the width.

    So, as a random net pic example, this tyre would be legal as long as those outer grooves are more than 1.6mm (whichthey probably are by eyeball).

    That's not saying you should keep using them like that, but an MOT fail for them would be wrong.




    eta: This one, on the other hand, would be illegal because the far left hand main groove is below the limit (ie: barely there!)

    Last edited by Joe Horner; 11-03-2018 at 3:18 PM.
    • Jackmydad
    • By Jackmydad 11th Mar 18, 4:30 PM
    • 2,467 Posts
    • 7,354 Thanks
    Jackmydad
    Agreed Joe, but usually, by the time they get to the stage in the top pic, in my experience anyway, they're often getting very close on the edge of the "main" tread.
    I can't actually remember the last time I had a big problem with tyres like that. I did have a bit of trouble with one of the rears on a Sierra wearing on the inside. I was fitting decent tyres, but a tyre fitter I knew said it was that make (I can't remember now) and swapping to another brand fixed it.
    "Luck happens where hard work meets opportunity"
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 11th Mar 18, 6:58 PM
    • 4,350 Posts
    • 3,821 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    Yep, I certainly wouldn't be driving on them like that

    The point was mainly that it's the sort of wear that some MOT places - either through misunderstanding or intentionally as a sales method - might fail and most owners would just accept on that level of wear. Especially if the nice MOT man takes the trouble to explain it's because it's inside an official, measured (but misapplied) area of the tyre.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,744Posts Today

7,916Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin