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  • FIRST POST
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 10:02 PM
    • 39Posts
    • 16Thanks
    doggychops
    clarification on PCN with blue badge
    • #1
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:02 PM
    clarification on PCN with blue badge 8th Mar 18 at 10:02 PM
    I have recently posted on here and think I have received sound advice.
    My mother in law received a PCN from the CEL in a KFC car park.

    She definitely was not there for the stated times although can not provide any evidence of this as it was back in December (no receipts etc)

    I have copied the 'one size fits all' in to an email and readying to send it..Can I just ask...It mentions about adding extra evidence etc..

    She is a registered blue badge holder, but we do not have the facility to scan this on for evidence. Do I mention this or not..or do i continue with the theme of the template letter and refuse to acknowledge the driver?

    Apologies if this sounds confusing but I'm not great this kind of thing and appreciate any help and patience.

    Thank you
Page 2
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 9th Mar 18, 9:33 AM
    • 36,621 Posts
    • 82,940 Thanks
    Fruitcake

    16.5 If your landowner provides a concession that allows parking for disabled people, if a vehicle displays a valid Blue Badge you must not issue it with parking charge notices.
    Originally posted by Big Dave88
    CEL are BPA members, however you have quoted from version 5 (2014) and earlier. Clause 16.5 was removed from version 6 (2015) and not re-introduced for (the current) version 7 (2018.)

    Barstewards!
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 09-03-2018 at 9:36 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Big Dave88
    • By Big Dave88 9th Mar 18, 11:11 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Big Dave88
    CEL are BPA members, however you have quoted from version 5 (2014) and earlier. Clause 16.5 was removed from version 6 (2015) and not re-introduced for (the current) version 7 (2018.)

    Barstewards!
    Originally posted by Fruitcake

    Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. It was all the info I could find on the net when I submitted my appeal. Still they accepted it.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Mar 18, 11:34 AM
    • 17,570 Posts
    • 27,759 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    This is the latest fudge by the BPA, so as to allow their members access to penalise Blue Badge holders! No one is safe - they even sue young children with mobility vehicles where their name is on the V5C.

    As Fruitcake describes them .......!
    16 Disabled motorists
    16.1 The Equality Act 2010 says that providers of services to the public must make ‘reasonable adjustments’ to remove barriers which may discriminate against disabled people.

    16.2 ‘Reasonable adjustments’ to prevent discrimination are likely to include larger ‘disabled’ parking spaces near to the entrance or amenities for disabled people whose mobility is impaired. It also could include lowered payment machines and other ways to pay if payment is required: for example, paying by phone. You and your staff also need to realise that some disabled people may take a long time to get to the payment machine.

    16.3 Operators of off-street car parks do not have to recognise the Blue Badge scheme. But many choose to do so to meet their obligations under the Equality Act. Although a Blue Badge is not issued to all disabled people it is issued to those with mobility problems. So it is a good way for parking operators to identify people who need special parking provision.

    16.4 You are at risk of a claim under the Equality Act if you do not discourage abuse of the ‘disabled’ spaces.This means that you need to make sure the spaces are regularly checked to be sure they are not being used by people who do not have a disability.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Mar 18, 12:28 PM
    • 18,094 Posts
    • 22,872 Thanks
    Redx
    we dont know why the OP mentioned the Blue Badge

    but we do know that the BB qualifies them under the EA2010 and so I concentrated on that aspect in my reply

    this means they are forewarned about the EA2010 possibilities and so cannot say they WOULD HAVE CANCELLED IT HAD THEY KNOWN at a later date

    ie:- it puts them on notice
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 9th Mar 18, 7:30 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    hi folks

    i only mentioned the blue badge as i thought it may have assisted with the appeal.
    I am interested to gain the photographic evidence they provide as she only visits with my children and i collect them from her house after work just after 5. The incident states she was there from 16.25 until 19.36. I feel the urge to question their equipment but don't want to rile them further.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Mar 18, 7:48 PM
    • 18,094 Posts
    • 22,872 Thanks
    Redx
    depends on what they are alleging the infringement was

    it is most likely that they will state the driver overstayed the allowed time, because they tend to limit the time on site to say 1 hour or 2 hours or 3 hours

    whereas the MIL will know that she is allowed up to 3 hours (common knowledge) but this only applies on public roads etc , so both she and her family should read the blue booklet and ensure that she or they comply with the signage on private land like supermarkets , hospitals, retail parks, fast food outlets , airports , stations , ports etc

    on private land the landowner or PPC may and usually do issue rules for BB holders and they tend to insist that the BB is on display , but the "3 hour rule" rarely applies on private land and can vary from say 15 minutes to 4 hours !

    I would still add the scan and warn them about the equality act 2010 , regardless , that way they cannot say they werent told later down the line
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Mar 18, 7:50 PM
    • 35,549 Posts
    • 19,747 Thanks
    Quentin
    Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving


    You need to edit your posts to remove details of who was driving


    The ppcs monitor this forum and can use your posts against you
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 9th Mar 18, 7:50 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    will do.

    she has sent me photo of her bb today so will get it sent tonight.

    Thank you
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Mar 18, 7:57 PM
    • 35,549 Posts
    • 19,747 Thanks
    Quentin
    Make sure you don't reveal who was driving in your appeal!
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 9th Mar 18, 8:34 PM
    • 10,446 Posts
    • 9,729 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Still don't get what the BB has to do with anything. OP - you really need to be clearer to enable us to help.

    For example, if there is a 30 minute parking limit, staying 2 hours with a BB is of no use whatsoever.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Mar 18, 8:39 PM
    • 57,309 Posts
    • 70,913 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    For example, if there is a 30 minute parking limit, staying 2 hours with a BB is of no use whatsoever.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    Can be, Guys Dad.

    For example, on street, if there is a 30 minute free parking time limit, a BB holder can stay in that bay ''as long as they need''.

    I read the BB handbook fairly recently, due to a relative I drive around sometimes.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 9th Mar 18, 10:19 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    Still don't get what the BB has to do with anything. OP - you really need to be clearer to enable us to help.

    For example, if there is a 30 minute parking limit, staying 2 hours with a BB is of no use whatsoever.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    Point taken.

    In all honesty without visiting the site myself, I am unclear as to what signage there is and how clear it is.
    I will try and get there to see and ask if she actually used a disabled bay or in fact displayed her BB (she usually does)
    As I mentioned before, I was hoping that because she has the use of a BB, it may be in her favour for the appeal. I recently tried to help a client get a councils parking fine scrubbed (I work in Mental Health) and the company didn't give a damn about any illness and said he still has to pay. So I guess I was grasping at straws a little.
    Sorry for the confusion

    Would you suggest to continue with the appeal in the 'normal' way without the mention of her BB and see how it goes?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Mar 18, 10:28 PM
    • 18,094 Posts
    • 22,872 Thanks
    Redx
    it does no harm to add it into the mix at this stage , as long as nobody indicates who was driving

    anybody could have been driving the vehicle and taking her out to the shops or to KFC

    the PCN will tell her what the alleged infringement was , but pictures of the signage is also a good idea too

    I was worried that the driver parked in a disabled bay for say 3 hours and didnt read the signage because they ASSUMED the 3 hour rule applies, whereas it does not apply on private land like KFC

    I doubt that you or she have even bothered to read the booklet (you can doanload a pdf copy off the internet quite easily)

    its a common mistake to make, as a BB holder myself and the EA2010 protects me I have realised this SINCE I joined here five years ago , so without this forum I would probably still be in cloud cuckoo land as regards the private parking issues

    I warned asda about this some 18 months ago and didnt even have a parking ticket, but they were warned that if I receive one then a counter claim under the EA2010 would ensue if they had violated the law

    asda gave my vehicle an exemption for all of their car parks after I provided a picture of the BB and gave them my VRM details too

    forewarned can be forearmed
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 9th Mar 18, 11:03 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    I apologise for this but Is anyone able to suggest a wording of how to say a Blue badge was in use without naming the driver etc...

    so sorry but I have hit a blank...

    No worries if not, I'll try with a clearer head tomorrow, but thank you if someone could write a sentence that would work.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Mar 18, 11:13 PM
    • 57,309 Posts
    • 70,913 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I recently tried to help a client get a councils parking fine scrubbed (I work in Mental Health) and the company didn't give a damn about any illness and said he still has to pay. So I guess I was grasping at straws a little.
    A council PCN is often cancellable, with help from pepipoo, who win over 90% of cases on there. Not sure why you said ''the company'' didn't give a damn, unless you just mean you gave up after the first appeal stage and didn't even try the Council NTO stage appeal, or adjudication? First appeal stage is NOT when Council PCNs are won:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

    With this one from the private firm, how long was the overstay then?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Mar 18, 11:24 PM
    • 7,139 Posts
    • 6,584 Thanks
    KeithP
    I apologise for this but Is anyone able to suggest a wording of how to say a Blue badge was in use without naming the driver etc...

    so sorry but I have hit a blank...

    No worries if not, I'll try with a clearer head tomorrow, but thank you if someone could write a sentence that would work.
    Originally posted by doggychops
    An occupant of the car was a blue badge holder.
    Does not have to be the driver.
    There are many blue badge holders that don't drive.
    .
    • kryten3000
    • By kryten3000 10th Mar 18, 12:20 AM
    • 45 Posts
    • 85 Thanks
    kryten3000
    as a retired BT engineer I can tell you that dialling codes mean nothing at all, you can easily rent a code in one part of the country that forwards the call to somewhere else, they used to be called OUT OF AREA EXCHANGE LINES , or OOAEL for short
    Originally posted by Redx
    With the advent of internet based telephony, it's trivially easy (and cheap) to set up phone numbers for any area code regardless of the phone system's physical location.
    It's possible to call my office phone via several completely different numbers.
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 10th Mar 18, 6:47 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    An occupant of the car was a blue badge holder.
    Does not have to be the driver.
    There are many blue badge holders that don't drive.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    So simple of course..
    It had been a long day
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 10th Mar 18, 6:51 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    A council PCN is often cancellable, with help from pepipoo, who win over 90% of cases on there. Not sure why you said ''the company'' didn't give a damn, unless you just mean you gave up after the first appeal stage and didn't even try the Council NTO stage appeal, or adjudication? First appeal stage is NOT when Council PCNs are won:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

    With this one from the private firm, how long was the overstay then?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    The client had two tickets. One for not displaying a ticket at all in a car park.
    The other was on a road directly underneath a 'No Parking sign'
    He said he parked by the sign because there were other cars parked there and he thought it was ok
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 10th Mar 18, 9:03 AM
    • 10,446 Posts
    • 9,729 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Can be, Guys Dad.

    For example, on street, if there is a 30 minute free parking time limit, a BB holder can stay in that bay ''as long as they need''.

    I read the BB handbook fairly recently, due to a relative I drive around sometimes.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    That's on a street. This is a private car park. A BB is not a universal licence for every situation despite what many people might wish.

    The BB scheme rules are here and in particular look at number 11.1re private car parks and 11.4 re your point on "as long as you need" which seems to disagree with you.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england#where-can-i-park
    Last edited by Guys Dad; 10-03-2018 at 9:09 AM.
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