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  • FIRST POST
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 10:02 PM
    • 39Posts
    • 16Thanks
    doggychops
    clarification on PCN with blue badge
    • #1
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:02 PM
    clarification on PCN with blue badge 8th Mar 18 at 10:02 PM
    I have recently posted on here and think I have received sound advice.
    My mother in law received a PCN from the CEL in a KFC car park.

    She definitely was not there for the stated times although can not provide any evidence of this as it was back in December (no receipts etc)

    I have copied the 'one size fits all' in to an email and readying to send it..Can I just ask...It mentions about adding extra evidence etc..

    She is a registered blue badge holder, but we do not have the facility to scan this on for evidence. Do I mention this or not..or do i continue with the theme of the template letter and refuse to acknowledge the driver?

    Apologies if this sounds confusing but I'm not great this kind of thing and appreciate any help and patience.

    Thank you
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Mar 18, 10:04 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:04 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:04 PM
    If you mean you do not have a scanner, just take a picture on your phone.

    There is no such thing as 'registered' disabled or 'registered blue badge holder', BTW. I don't mean that in a funny way, I just mean disabled people are not on a 'register' thank goodness!

    If you are sending an appeal in March, re a December incident, surely you are doing this rather late...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 10:10 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:10 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:10 PM
    If you mean you do not have a scanner, just take a picture on your phone.

    There is no such thing as 'registered' disabled or 'registered blue badge holder', BTW. I don't mean that in a funny way, I just mean disabled people are not on a 'register' thank goodness!

    If you are sending an appeal in March, re a December incident, surely you are doing this rather late...
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    the pcn issue date was 21/02/2018
    contravention was dated 19/12/2017

    I have waited for the 28 day period before responding as suggested...is that correct?

    And thanks for the phone camera suggestion...am a tad dense clearly.

    I also get what you mean as far as the registered comment. An oversight on my part.

    Thank you for swift response
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Mar 18, 10:13 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:13 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:13 PM
    If this was a postal PCN it arrived very late! Don't wait till day 26. Appeal now as keeper.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 10:16 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:16 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:16 PM
    yes it is a postal pcn.

    May I ask?, do they generally send photographic evidence in the first correspondence as I am actually a tad suspicious of the letter. It looks very 'low budget' for want of a better phrase.
    And do you recommend the appeal using the template on the newbies thread?
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 10:19 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:19 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:19 PM
    I am also a little confused as the phone number on it that is says can be used to pay, is i think a local number to here. It says they are based in Liverpool, or is that me being naive again?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Mar 18, 10:31 PM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,980 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #7
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:31 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:31 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, Smart and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They nearly always lose) and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Mar 18, 10:33 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:33 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:33 PM
    And do you recommend the appeal using the template on the newbies thread?
    Yes, I wrote it!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Mar 18, 10:40 PM
    • 18,147 Posts
    • 22,954 Thanks
    Redx
    • #9
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:40 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:40 PM
    I am also a little confused as the phone number on it that is says can be used to pay, is i think a local number to here. It says they are based in Liverpool, or is that me being naive again?
    Originally posted by doggychops
    yes , you are being naive again

    these companies tend to use mailboxes or mail drops which redirect to their secret addresses , or the mail is picked up regularly from their rented mail boxes

    these are sc@mmers who do not want their "proper" details to become common knowledge to their victims like yourself, unlike the fact that they want YOUR actual name and postal details which they obtain from the DVLA on the cheap

    it is all smoke and mirrors, nothing is black and white , so take nothing at face value
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 10:44 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    Right oh.

    And apologies once more, but as I do not have her blue badge to hand, would it be appropriate to proceed without it.
    I work shifts and she is not just round the corner. She is an elderly lady who is panicking...crikey she mus be, if she she has asked for my help.

    Compliments on how well written it is btw.
    I assume i end the letter at the point where I give her address in that case, as providing evidence such as blue badge would maybe imply that she was in fact driving?
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 10:49 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    yes , you are being naive again

    these companies tend to use mailboxes or mail drops which redirect to their secret addresses , or the mail is picked up regularly from their rented mail boxes

    these are sc@mmers who do not want their "proper" details to become common knowledge to their victims like yourself, unlike the fact that they want YOUR actual name and postal details which they obtain from the DVLA on the cheap

    it is all smoke and mirrors, nothing is black and white , so take nothing at face value
    Originally posted by Redx
    I understand what you say. It just seemed a big coincidence to me that I am near Nottingham and the 'pay us' phone number had a Nottingham code. I was cautious when I saw it as there some unscrupulous rogues out there who are on a par or worse than CEL. (maybe)
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Mar 18, 10:54 PM
    • 7,261 Posts
    • 6,783 Thanks
    KeithP
    Rogues worse than private parking companies?

    Is that possible?
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Mar 18, 10:55 PM
    • 18,147 Posts
    • 22,954 Thanks
    Redx
    ideally you obtain a scan or a picture (like a mobile phone pic) of the valid blue badge and state that it was used on the day by an occupant of the vehicle and they should apply the Equality Act 2010

    do not imply who was driving , the person they sent the letter to is the person who is appealing as KEEPER, even if you or somebody else is doing it in their name

    do not give out any addresses, they have the keeper address they obtained from the dvla

    less is more, so do not start blabbing and stick to the bare minimum at this stage , which is a keeper appeal on behalf of the keeper, using the template , and add the extra paragraph about an occupant of the vehicle owning a valid BB and is covered by the EA2010

    the BB shows that an occupant of the vehicle is covered by that EA2010 (the BB is not valid on private land the the blue booklet tells you this)- some people cannot drive yet have a BB, including children over 5

    it does not follow that the keeper, the driver and the BB owner are all one and the same person, sometimes they are, often they are not

    as a retired BT engineer I can tell you that dialling codes mean nothing at all, you can easily rent a code in one part of the country that forwards the call to somewhere else, they used to be called OUT OF AREA EXCHANGE LINES , or OOAEL for short

    and you can rent a postal mailbox anywhere in the UK, which could be 200 miles away from your business or residence

    and if you move house you can set up a redirect with the Royal Mail to have your mail redirected to your new residence or business from your old one

    nb: - ALL of these parking companies are "rogues", which is why ALL the MP,s in the houses of parliament slagged them off some 5 or 6 weeks ago
    Last edited by Redx; 08-03-2018 at 11:02 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 10:57 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    Rogues worse than private parking companies?

    Is that possible?
    Originally posted by KeithP
    I did put (maybe)

    But hopefully you see my point.
    Some folk are aware of the issues regarding this and may see it as an opportunity to masquerade as these cowboys in the hope of financial gain themselves. As I said, seemed a coincidence that it was a local number. I have googled it now, and they use the same number nationwide...I didn't realise that at the time.
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 11:01 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops

    do not give out any addresses, they have the keeper address they obtained from the dvla

    nb: - ALL of these parking companies are "rogues", which is why all the MP,s in the houses of parliament slagged them off some 5 or 6 weeks ago
    Originally posted by Redx
    So to confirm, just use the pcn number for correspondence at this stage?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Mar 18, 11:04 PM
    • 18,147 Posts
    • 22,954 Thanks
    Redx
    So to confirm, just use the pcn number for correspondence at this stage?
    Originally posted by doggychops
    yes , just use the pcn number , appeal as KEEPER , use the template , add a paragraph about an occupant of the vehicle being a BB holder and covered by the EA2010 , add a pic or scan of it if possible to obtain before the 28 day appeal deadline runs out
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • doggychops
    • By doggychops 8th Mar 18, 11:09 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    doggychops
    Brilliant

    Thank you so very much for your help and your patience.




    Thank you again, its very much appreciated. Bless you
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 9th Mar 18, 6:42 AM
    • 10,460 Posts
    • 9,747 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    I agree with the first stage advice you have been given, but anticipating this will go to the 2nd stage, I don't understand what the blue badge has to do with it.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Mar 18, 6:53 AM
    • 17,653 Posts
    • 27,905 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    the pcn issue date was 21/02/2018
    contravention was dated 19/12/2017
    Given those dates, provided the driver isn't identified in the initial appeal, this can be beaten at POPLA on the basis that a compliant Notice to Keeper hasn't been served within the time limits.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Big Dave88
    • By Big Dave88 9th Mar 18, 9:13 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Big Dave88
    Doggychops,

    Are the people who issued the PCN a member of the BPA (British Parking Association)?

    Were there any warning signs showing the Ts & Cs of the car park?

    Also, did your MIL park in a marked disabled bay?

    If so, then the following applies.

    The BPA code of practice states the following:-

    16.5 If your landowner provides a concession that allows parking for disabled people, if a vehicle displays a valid Blue Badge you must not issue it with parking charge notices.

    18.10 So that disabled motorists can decide whether they want to use the site, there should be at least one sign containing the terms and conditions for parking that can be viewed without needing to leave the vehicle. Ideally this sign should be close to any parking bays set aside for disabled motorists.

    Note that 18.10 has since been amended, effective 2nd Jan2018.
    http://www.britishparking.co.uk/AOS-Code-Changes-2018

    Clause 18.9 and 28.8 - So that disabled motorists can decide whether they want to use the site, there must be at least one sign containing the terms and conditions for parking that can be viewed without needing to leave the vehicle. Ideally this sign must be close to any parking bays set aside for disabled motorists. (The use of the word "should"; was replaced with "must")


    Good luck.
    Last edited by Big Dave88; 09-03-2018 at 9:16 AM.
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