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    • River Girl
    • By River Girl 8th Mar 18, 7:56 PM
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    River Girl
    Obtaining Planning Permission for New Builds
    • #1
    • 8th Mar 18, 7:56 PM
    Obtaining Planning Permission for New Builds 8th Mar 18 at 7:56 PM
    Initially, I will only put brief details here but will start another thread with more detail if that is needed...
    My mother owns a plot of land between her house and a neighbour which is currently "agricultural". It has always been her wish to build a retirement bungalow with the proceeds from selling the family home.
    More recently I have become disabled and we have both agreed to the "plan" of building two bungalows on the land so we can support each other going forward.
    An Application for Advice has been made and we have been told permission is unlikely to be granted as the land is not in the envelope...
    We have been told that we can apply to another council or authority for permission (which seems mad to me) - a large development was passed recently without the local authorities even having a say...

    Any clues to our way of appealing and so obtaining our retirement homes would be gratefully received - many thanks in advance
Page 1
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 8th Mar 18, 8:06 PM
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    davidmcn
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 8:06 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 8:06 PM
    You don't appeal against pre-planning advice, you'd need to make the planning application - and if that's refused, then appeal.

    But if what you're proposing is clearly against their current policy, it doesn't seem worthwhile.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 8th Mar 18, 8:36 PM
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    Davesnave
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 8:36 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 8:36 PM
    My mother owns a plot of land between her house and a neighbour which is currently "agricultural".
    Originally posted by River Girl
    Do you mean it has an agricultural occupancy condition? (Agricultural tie.)

    That might explain a relatively modern (1970 onwards) property being outside the development boundary, but it would not indicate a general ability to build there, or any potential for infill development of the type you have in mind.
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • angelin77
    • By angelin77 9th Mar 18, 8:32 AM
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    angelin77
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 18, 8:32 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 18, 8:32 AM
    We have just obtained planning permission to build a new bungalow next to our existing one which now has pp to turn into a dormer. It has cost us about £5000 to obtain both pp's. Yours will probably cost more with the architect fees and application fees for two new builds for which is doesn't look likely permission will be granted. It's quite a lot of money to gamble on a non certainty.....and that's just the beginning. You need permission to drop kerbs, arrange new services etc. A lot to consider.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 9th Mar 18, 8:54 AM
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    Doozergirl
    • #5
    • 9th Mar 18, 8:54 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Mar 18, 8:54 AM
    Your best bet would be to speak to a planning consultant and ask them to assess the situation for you and advise whether it is worth making a full application. However, I wouldn't hold your hopes up.

    Building outside of a village envelope in virtually open countryside isn't something that is easy to obtain and if the pre-app was a very flat no, you may find that the planning consultant advises you not to go for it. But at least you will have taken a your own professional paid for advice.

    As a one-off (or two-off development), it's almost harder to get planning than it is for a larger developer.

    It might be that you are allowed to build an annexe to the main dwelling instead of entirely separately registered dwellings, but an annexe may well not be worth a huge amount of money and may not be worth what you spend.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Mar 18, 9:26 AM
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    AdrianC
    • #6
    • 9th Mar 18, 9:26 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Mar 18, 9:26 AM
    My mother owns a plot of land between her house and a neighbour which is currently "agricultural".
    by River Girl
    Do you mean it has an agricultural occupancy condition? (Agricultural tie.)
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    I read it as the land itself is agricultural use. Rural LAs are often very reluctant to give change of use from agricultural, even for gardens, let alone for development.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 9th Mar 18, 9:31 AM
    • 7,630 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 18, 9:31 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 18, 9:31 AM
    I read it as the land itself is agricultural use.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    That's also how I interpreted it.

    Also if it's "always been her wish to build a retirement bungalow" (presumably on this site) has she really always thought it was easy to get planning to build houses on agricultural land? Wouldn't altering the existing house be more feasible?
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 9th Mar 18, 9:43 AM
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    Davesnave
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 18, 9:43 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 18, 9:43 AM
    ....has she really always thought it was easy to get planning to build houses on agricultural land?
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    The naivety required to think that is why I thought the 'neighbour' might be an agricultural bungalow erected in the OP's mother's lifetime.

    OTOH, it's common for those on the edge of villages to note the expansion of development boundaries and assume 'their time will come.'

    In this case, perhaps it just hasn't come fast enough!
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • elverson
    • By elverson 9th Mar 18, 10:27 AM
    • 784 Posts
    • 502 Thanks
    elverson
    • #9
    • 9th Mar 18, 10:27 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Mar 18, 10:27 AM
    We have been told that we can apply to another council or authority for permission (which seems mad to me) - a large development was passed recently without the local authorities even having a say...

    Any clues to our way of appealing and so obtaining our retirement homes would be gratefully received - many thanks in advance
    Originally posted by River Girl
    Is the advice from your local council or someone else?

    Which "other council" do they refer to?
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 9th Mar 18, 10:41 AM
    • 1,129 Posts
    • 810 Thanks
    teneighty
    Your best bet would be to speak to a planning consultant and ask them to assess the situation for you and advise whether it is worth making a full application. However, I wouldn't hold your hopes up.

    Building outside of a village envelope in virtually open countryside isn't something that is easy to obtain and if the pre-app was a very flat no, you may find that the planning consultant advises you not to go for it. But at least you will have taken a your own professional paid for advice.

    As a one-off (or two-off development), it's almost harder to get planning than it is for a larger developer.

    It might be that you are allowed to build an annexe to the main dwelling instead of entirely separately registered dwellings, but an annexe may well not be worth a huge amount of money and may not be worth what you spend.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    ^^^^^^^^^ This is excellent advice and all you need to know.

    A private Planning consultant will sometimes give an initial quick informal opinion for free over the phone, £500 for something in writing and around £1500 (plus architectural designer for plans) if it goes to a Planning application.
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 9th Mar 18, 11:09 AM
    • 843 Posts
    • 955 Thanks
    ProDave
    You could always be a bit cheeky and apply for change of use to incorporate this bit of land into the existing garden thus making your garden bigger. At this stage without a building on it.

    Then once (if ) the change of use is agreed, apply to build the new property which might be easier if it's a garden.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Mar 18, 11:26 AM
    • 17,358 Posts
    • 15,701 Thanks
    AdrianC
    You could always be a bit cheeky and apply for change of use to incorporate this bit of land into the existing garden thus making your garden bigger. At this stage without a building on it.

    Then once (if ) the change of use is agreed, apply to build the new property which might be easier if it's a garden.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    The LA aren't daft, and the change of use is the bit that'll be hard.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 9th Mar 18, 1:44 PM
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    Davesnave
    Is the advice from your local council or someone else?

    Which "other council" do they refer to?
    Originally posted by elverson
    The OP only applied for advice.

    There is no 'other council,' just the one they'd apply to if the submitted an application for PP.

    If PP is refused, applicants may appeal, and ultimately a decision might go before the Secretary of State, who has the power to overturn it, which is what sometimes happens with large developments. This is what the OP was referring to.
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
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