Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • beeza650
    • By beeza650 8th Mar 18, 4:39 PM
    • 51Posts
    • 0Thanks
    beeza650
    Will advice
    • #1
    • 8th Mar 18, 4:39 PM
    Will advice 8th Mar 18 at 4:39 PM
    I'm in my early 40's and have no will. I'm unmarried but do live with the mother of my 2-year-old daughter. Assets comprise a loan to my partner of 225k that she used to buy her previous home outright. 250k in my house (half its value), around 150k ISAs/shares etc, 150k pension and death insurance worth around 320k ...If you add it all up it's close to a million.

    I can't see myself marrying my partner while I'm healthy, but it's something I'd consider for tax reasons if I knew I was terminally ill.

    What I'm asking for help with is to understand how people tend to divide up their assets / or rather what they would hypothetically do in my shoes.

    I want to make sure my daughter is well taken care of but don't have huge faith that my partner would use my assets wisely if I left them all to her. My thoughts were to write off the loan on her house (she's made it clear she doesn't want to stay in our 5-bed place if there's just the two of them) then I'd like to drip feed money to my daughter / partner on the possibly flawed assumption that would drive some discipline to their spending.

    I've got a classic motorbike (5k) that I may leave to a friend but the rest would go to my partner and daughter. My parents are well off, my brother has already had a lot of help in his life (from my folks) and my sister, who I'm not that close to, appears to be ok or would be taken care of by my folks if something happened.

    It looks like there'd be no tax benefit to donating to charity (if a charity does help me though then I'd make some provision for them anyway - not sure how I'd word it in the will... 10k to the charity most "relevant" to my death). From the few articles I've read, it looks like inheritance tax relief on my main residence doesn't apply as my daughter is too young?

    P.S. I took some advice from an IFA on inheritance tax and his genius idea was to take out an insurance policy to cover the tax knowing I already have 320K of insurance from my employer.....hmm!

    Anyway - welcome your thoughts. Thanks
    Last edited by beeza650; 08-03-2018 at 9:42 PM.
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 8th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    • 4,112 Posts
    • 3,369 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    I'm in my early 40's and have no will. I'm unmarried but do live with the mother of my 2-year-old daughter. Assets comprise a loan to my partner of 225k that she used to buy her previous home outright. 250k in my house (half its value), around 150k ISAs/shares etc, 150k pension and death insurance worth around 320k ...If you add it all up it's close a million.

    I can't see myself marrying my partner while I'm healthy, but it's something I'd consider for tax reasons if I knew I was terminally ill.

    What I'm asking for help with is to understand how people tend to divide up their assets / or rather what they would hypothetically do in my shoes.

    I want to make sure my daughter is well taken care of but don't have huge faith that my partner would use my assets wisely if I left them all to her. My thoughts were to write off the loan on her house (she's made it clear she doesn't want to stay in our 5-bed place if there's just the two of them) then I'd like to drip feed money to my daughter / partner on the possibly flawed assumption that would drive some discipline to their spending.

    I've got a classic motorbike (5k) that I may leave to a friend but that's about it for "gifts" outside my partner and daughter. My parents are well off, my brother has already had a lot of help in his life (from my folks) and my sister, who I'm not that close to, appears to be ok or would be taken care of by my folks if something happened.

    It looks there'd be no tax benefit to donating to charity (if a charity does help me though then I'd make some provision for them anyway - not sure how I'd word it in the will... 10k to charity most "relevant" to my death. From the few articles I've read it looks like inheritance tax relief on my main residence doesn't apply as my daughter is too young?

    P.S. I took some advice from an IFA on inheritance tax and his genius idea was to take out an insurance policy to cover the tax knowing I already have 320K of insurance from my employer.....hmm!

    Anyway - welcome your thoughts. Thanks
    Originally posted by beeza650
    Asking a commission based IFA is, as you have found, not the right course. It looks as if some kind of trust is called for. The obvious choice is to find a STEP member and pay a few hundred for an initial consultation.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 8th Mar 18, 6:57 PM
    • 4,976 Posts
    • 5,541 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 6:57 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 6:57 PM
    Asking a commission based IFA is, as you have found, not the right course. It looks as if some kind of trust is called for. The obvious choice is to find a STEP member and pay a few hundred for an initial consultation.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    IFAs are not commission based, and taking out insurance to cover IHT is not a silly idea even if you have death in service benefits. These policies are really useful for protecting gifts for the 7 years that IHT will still apply to them. As the OP has already given one substantial gift and plans further gifts to his children it would seem such a policy would make sense.

    We have a second death policy that will pay out over 200k for the modest sum of 19 a month. This was arranged through an IFA who havee access to products that are not available directly to the public.

    What anyone who consults a financial advising should do hovever, is make sure they use an IFA not a tied FA.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 8th Mar 18, 7:30 PM
    • 4,112 Posts
    • 3,369 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 7:30 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 7:30 PM
    IFAs are not commission based, and taking out insurance to cover IHT is not a silly idea even if you have death in service benefits. These policies are really useful for protecting gifts for the 7 years that IHT will still apply to them. As the OP has already given one substantial gift and plans further gifts to his children it would seem such a policy would make sense.

    We have a second death policy that will pay out over 200k for the modest sum of 19 a month. This was arranged through an IFA who havee access to products that are not available directly to the public.

    What anyone who consults a financial advising should do hovever, is make sure they use an IFA not a tied FA.
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling
    IFA's DO earn a substantial amount of their income from commission.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 8th Mar 18, 7:42 PM
    • 4,976 Posts
    • 5,541 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 7:42 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 7:42 PM
    IFA's DO earn a substantial amount of their income from commission.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    IFAs have had to be fee based since Jan 2012.

    http://citywire.co.uk/money/will-we-miss-commission-biased-financial-advisers/a629663

    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/trail-commission
    Last edited by Keep pedalling; 08-03-2018 at 7:45 PM.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 8th Mar 18, 7:57 PM
    • 4,112 Posts
    • 3,369 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 7:57 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 7:57 PM
    Noted. Mea culpa! Apologies
    • beeza650
    • By beeza650 8th Mar 18, 9:34 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    beeza650
    • #7
    • 8th Mar 18, 9:34 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Mar 18, 9:34 PM
    As the OP has already given one substantial gift and plans further gifts to his children it would seem such a policy would make sense.
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling
    I've not given any gifts nor was I planning to for a long time. Gifting to avoid tax is something I'll look into when I'm much older. The will now is just in case I die suddenly. I can't really see any sense in taking out additional life cover as even after tax there's plenty left from my current estate to support my daughter.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 8th Mar 18, 10:57 PM
    • 4,976 Posts
    • 5,541 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #8
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:57 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Mar 18, 10:57 PM
    I've not given any gifts nor was I planning to for a long time. Gifting to avoid tax is something I'll look into when I'm much older. The will now is just in case I die suddenly. I can't really see any sense in taking out additional life cover as even after tax there's plenty left from my current estate to support my daughter.
    Originally posted by beeza650
    Apologies, I should have re read your opening post, it was a loan you not a gift. I would still not dismiss the idea of covering a potential IHT bill with insurance though, for someone in good health and of your age it should be a very cheap option, ours was taken out in our early 60s and it was very low cost even then.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 9th Mar 18, 12:45 AM
    • 38,480 Posts
    • 35,149 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #9
    • 9th Mar 18, 12:45 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Mar 18, 12:45 AM
    Obviously in your will you also need to do some what if planning - what if your partner and / or your daughter die before you do? Most unlikely, perhaps, but should still be covered.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself ...
    Current projects: Poppies, mohair cardigan pattern arrived and going strong!
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 9th Mar 18, 8:11 AM
    • 32,035 Posts
    • 19,222 Thanks
    getmore4less
    I can't see myself marrying my partner while I'm healthy, but it's something I'd consider for tax reasons if I knew I was terminally ill.
    In the current tax structure the main benefits are spouse exemption and transferable nil rate band.

    Given your other comments I think you should look into this a bit more so you understand better the framework and implications.

    150k pension and death insurance worth around 320k
    Probably worth making sure these are trusts and the correct beneficiaries to be outside your estate


    From the few articles I've read, it looks like inheritance tax relief on my main residence doesn't apply as my daughter is too young?
    Children under 18 still qualify as direct descendants for RNRB purposes as long as the correct trust is used, the default BMT qualifies as do some others.

    As Sue says you need to look at a few basic death order scenario and consider the longer term as something put in place now will need to get modified or take account of everyone becoming adults or more kids happening.

    one word you need to look up is "commorientes" there are some non obvious effects around IHT, intestacy & wills that will need considering.

    You also need to consider your asset base growing.

    The current IHT bill <100k(ish, getting pension&life cover outside the estate) is well covered.


    You should also think about your partners and daughters estate as part of the bigger picture.

    eg what would the current asset flow be if you and your daughter die together in a car crash.
    • beeza650
    • By beeza650 9th Mar 18, 11:41 AM
    • 51 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    beeza650
    Obviously in your will you also need to do some what if planning - what if your partner and / or your daughter die before you do? Most unlikely, perhaps, but should still be covered.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    Very good point - just the sort of reminders I was hoping for. Thanks
    • beeza650
    • By beeza650 9th Mar 18, 11:55 AM
    • 51 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    beeza650
    In the current tax structure the main benefits are spouse exemption and transferable nil rate band.

    Given your other comments I think you should look into this a bit more so you understand better the framework and implications.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Will do, but I guess that can go on the back burner for now - from what I understand already, the tax saving outweighs the risk of the inheritance been used unwisely.


    Probably worth making sure these are trusts and the correct beneficiaries to be outside your estate
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Oh right - so insurance and pension might not be included in tax calcs - I can't change their sturcture, that's decided by my employer, the current beneficiary is my father. That in itself seems a bit odd as I could have something else written in my will I guess?

    Children under 18 still qualify as direct descendants for RNRB purposes as long as the correct trust is used, the default BMT qualifies as do some others.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Good to know - def going to need to investigate a trust then.

    As Sue says you need to look at a few basic death order scenario and consider the longer term as something put in place now will need to get modified or take account of everyone becoming adults or more kids happening.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Yes I'll note the scenarios down now so I have them clear in my mind.

    You also need to consider your asset base growing.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    I can't immediately see how that would alter allocation...is that what you meant?

    Thanks though - it's never simple is it!
    • beeza650
    • By beeza650 9th Mar 18, 12:08 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    beeza650
    one word you need to look up is "commorientes" there are some non obvious effects around IHT, intestacy & wills that will need considering.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Hmm had a quick Google....the examples focus on married couples which we will only become if I am terminally ill or we stay together for perhaps another 20+ years.

    Is there a tax angle if I die at the same time as my daughter?
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 9th Mar 18, 12:24 PM
    • 6,487 Posts
    • 8,413 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    I'd second the advice to speak to a solicitor, to discuss what you want to achieve, and how to do so. As your child is still fairly young, then setting up a trust (perhaps worded to include any subsequent children you may have) so that your child gets some money in their own right when they are older. You could also structure it to allow money to be advanced to mum for the child's benefit during her childhood.

    In terms of tax planning, you would have to determine your priorities - for instance, gifting the money to your partner now might be tax efficient on your death, but of course would mean you would lose the right to be paid back now or if you separate, and so on.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 9th Mar 18, 12:43 PM
    • 2,526 Posts
    • 1,634 Thanks
    Robin9
    Putting money aside you need to consider the what if's should you and you partner both die.

    Your daughter is 2 who would look after her.? Discuss with possible guardians.

    Would you choose differently if your daughter is 7, 12, 17 ?
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • beeza650
    • By beeza650 9th Mar 18, 12:50 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    beeza650
    I'd second the advice to speak to a solicitor, to discuss what you want to achieve, and how to do so.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    Yes I will need a solicitor but I need to be as prepared as possible. My experience with solictiors so far has been poor, that goes for IFAs and accountantcies too for that matter. I'm using a recommended solictior now to handle the loan I made to my partner and it's been significantly suboptimal - we're still not finished!
    In terms of tax planning, you would have to determine your priorities - for instance, gifting the money to your partner now might be tax efficient on your death, but of course would mean you would lose the right to be paid back now or if you separate, and so on.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    I can't think of much action I can take now to reduce IHT, I'm not going to give money to my partner as the future there is too uncertain. I can afford to gift 3k to my daughter each year, that sounds like a good idea.

    I need to find a good investment vehicle for her - she already has 7K from relatives.....but that's for a different forum
    • beeza650
    • By beeza650 9th Mar 18, 1:11 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    beeza650
    Your daughter is 2 who would look after her.? Discuss with possible guardians.
    Would you choose differently if your daughter is 7, 12, 17 ?
    Originally posted by Robin9
    My intial reaction is that she should live with grandparents. Mine would be "better" but they are in their 70s whereas my partners are 10+ years younger so for continuity, they could be more suitable. From what I know of my partner's sister and her fiannce it feels the best place would be for her to live with them...my partner doesn't even want to discuss it with them though!
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 9th Mar 18, 1:14 PM
    • 4,112 Posts
    • 3,369 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Yes I will need a solicitor but I need to be as prepared as possible. My experience with solictiors so far has been poor, that goes for IFAs and accountantcies too for that matter. I'm using a recommended solictior now to handle the loan I made to my partner and it's been significantly suboptimal - we're still not finished!

    I can't think of much action I can take now to reduce IHT, I'm not going to give money to my partner as the future there is too uncertain. I can afford to gift 3k to my daughter each year, that sounds like a good idea.

    I need to find a good investment vehicle for her - she already has 7K from relatives.....but that's for a different forum
    Originally posted by beeza650
    You really need a specialist such as a STEP member. Ask around as a personal recomendation is best.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,595Posts Today

6,435Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin