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  • FIRST POST
    • Donury236
    • By Donury236 8th Mar 18, 1:53 PM
    • 64Posts
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    Donury236
    Can I delay confirmation?
    • #1
    • 8th Mar 18, 1:53 PM
    Can I delay confirmation? 8th Mar 18 at 1:53 PM
    So, my late fathers will states that I have first refusal to buy his house, and then I am entitled to 50% of all other assets with my sister.
    The solicitor reads this as I buy 50% of the house or its sold - it never transfers into my sisters name.
    Here lies the massive issue. The whole house is in my name - but I am not currently working as my partner does so he would be a joint applicant and paying the mortgage. But I have been told as he is not on the deeds he cannot be on the mortgage. Solicitor says that if I cannot buy the 50% myself it has to be sold, which is !!!!ing me off as my dad made it clear to the solicitor my situation at the time of the will being drafted (literally a week before he died!) and he left me the option of the house as he wanted my kids to grow up there.
    My partner and I own a house jointly at the moment and would likely need to sell it before we took on my dads - if we can figure out how to get past the name/deeds/mortgage issue.

    Can I delay confirmation or the sale of the house until I can sort something out? We are both executors as well as beneficiaries (though I am doing ALL the work re assets and debts and notifications!) so I am not sure how that works with the whole timeliness aspect!
Page 1
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 8th Mar 18, 2:08 PM
    • 29,243 Posts
    • 74,701 Thanks
    Mojisola
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:08 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:08 PM
    So, my late fathers will states that I have first refusal to buy his house, and then I am entitled to 50% of all other assets with my sister.

    The solicitor reads this as I buy 50% of the house or its sold - it never transfers into my sisters name.

    The whole house is in my name
    Originally posted by Donury236
    I'm finding this very confusing -

    if the house is in your name, isn't it your house now?
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 8th Mar 18, 2:10 PM
    • 4,989 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:10 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:10 PM
    I do not understand, why is the house in your name if your father owned it?

    The thing about wishes in wills is that they are simply that, they are not enforceable, and I do not really see why your sister should have to wait for her inheritance because you currently do not have the means to carry through those wishes. If you delay confirmation you sister could persue you for any losses that result in that delay.
    Last edited by Keep pedalling; 08-03-2018 at 3:10 PM.
    • Donury236
    • By Donury236 8th Mar 18, 5:00 PM
    • 64 Posts
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    Donury236
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 5:00 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 5:00 PM
    No sorry, it will be as my sister will never be on the deeds according to her and the solicitor. As in its not a case of 50% house and 50% assets then I pay my sister her share. That would be the easiest option as then my partner could in effect buy her share. My sister was there when dad got the will drafted up, I was not and he did discuss it with me beforehand so I knew his wishes and intentions, but my queries were never mentioned and so here we are.

    The way its worded is not 100% clear, mainly as it reads like I am to buy something I have a legal right to (law of succession in Scotland). I am an Executor and a Beneficiary.

    "I direct my Executors to give my said daughter xxx, aforesaid, the option to buy the said dwellinghouse at XXX, aforesaid at the market value to be determined by a suitably qualified chartered surveyor appointed by my Executors, but only if the said xxx intimates her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse to my Executors within two months of the date of my death. Declaring that the net proceeds of Sale of the said property shall form part of the residue of my estate which is dealt with in Clause (FOUR) hereof.

    (FOUR) I direct m executors to pay and make over the whole residue and remainder of my Estate equally between my two daughters, namely the said xxx, aforesaid and xxxxxx, aforesaid;"


    A petty as it is, I have had to do everything despite us being joint executors, There are near 100k in shares that I have said she can have and then I pay the balance of her 50% when I can get a mortgage on the house. The issue, that both my father and her knew before the will was finalised - and one of the big issues that I raised - was the mortgage issue, so TBH, given that my sister acted like it didnt matter beforehand, she can wait. If we have to sell the house it is likely to take longer than it would for me to sell this place and get a mortgage on m dads.

    I am being expected to sell our current property ASAP and making ourselves temp homeless just so that I can be ready for a mortgage whenever confirmation takes place - which no one can say when that is. The wording only states a time frame for my intimation - which has been given. I believe reasonable time is allowed for the division of the assets and so............a few months to get a mortgage sorted is not unreasonable surely.
    Last edited by Donury236; 08-03-2018 at 5:03 PM.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 8th Mar 18, 5:17 PM
    • 4,132 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 5:17 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 5:17 PM
    So, my late fathers will states that I have first refusal to buy his house, and then I am entitled to 50% of all other assets with my sister.
    The solicitor reads this as I buy 50% of the house or its sold - it never transfers into my sisters name.
    Here lies the massive issue. The whole house is in my name - but I am not currently working as my partner does so he would be a joint applicant and paying the mortgage. But I have been told as he is not on the deeds he cannot be on the mortgage. Solicitor says that if I cannot buy the 50% myself it has to be sold, which is !!!!ing me off as my dad made it clear to the solicitor my situation at the time of the will being drafted (literally a week before he died!) and he left me the option of the house as he wanted my kids to grow up there.
    My partner and I own a house jointly at the moment and would likely need to sell it before we took on my dads - if we can figure out how to get past the name/deeds/mortgage issue.

    Can I delay confirmation or the sale of the house until I can sort something out? We are both executors as well as beneficiaries (though I am doing ALL the work re assets and debts and notifications!) so I am not sure how that works with the whole timeliness aspect!
    Originally posted by Donury236
    As executor your primary responsibility is to the estate. You are not allowed to juggle things for your convenience or benefit as you are trying to do. Google self dealing for more details. I would have expected your solicitor to have explained that to you. You will be personally liable to the estate and any beneficiaries who have lost out due to this. You need to go back to your solicitor and ask how matters can be sorted ASAP without further delay.
    • Donury236
    • By Donury236 9th Mar 18, 4:39 PM
    • 64 Posts
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    Donury236
    • #6
    • 9th Mar 18, 4:39 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Mar 18, 4:39 PM
    But surely my sister being an executor and forcing me forward so she gets her share is also juggling things for her convenience? Surely reasonable time comes into it? Maybe I should stop doing anything and relinquish my executor duties, then I wont be self dealing and the reasonable time will apply.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 9th Mar 18, 5:24 PM
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    Tom99
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 18, 5:24 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 18, 5:24 PM
    I read the will as saying you have to confirm you want to buy within two months not that you have to complete the purchase within two months.
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 9th Mar 18, 5:29 PM
    • 2,199 Posts
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    Tabbytabitha
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 18, 5:29 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 18, 5:29 PM
    I read the will as saying you have to confirm you want to buy within two months not that you have to complete the purchase within two months.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    That's the way I read it as well.
    • flower77g
    • By flower77g 9th Mar 18, 6:13 PM
    • 72 Posts
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    flower77g
    • #9
    • 9th Mar 18, 6:13 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Mar 18, 6:13 PM
    Another possibility is for the original poster (and partner) to ask the inheriting sister to lend 50% of the value of the house as a mortgage, making payments each month to her. The original poster (and partner) could then have their names jointly on the deeds, with the sister's charge on the property recorded.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 10th Mar 18, 12:26 AM
    • 4,132 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    But surely my sister being an executor and forcing me forward so she gets her share is also juggling things for her convenience? Surely reasonable time comes into it? Maybe I should stop doing anything and relinquish my executor duties, then I wont be self dealing and the reasonable time will apply.
    Originally posted by Donury236
    As I said go back to your solictor and ask him to explain the whole thing to you. That is what he is there for. Nobody on here knows ALL the ins and outs.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 10th Mar 18, 12:28 AM
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    AnotherJoe
    Maybe I've missed this but if the house is in your name, which means you own it, why do you need to buy it? Why do you in some posts refer to it as your house and in others as your fathers?

    Secondly as said by others, assuming you dont own it and wish to buy it, the words you posted only indicate you have to declare your intention to buy within two months. That is very different from buying in two months.
    • BobQ
    • By BobQ 10th Mar 18, 1:43 AM
    • 9,964 Posts
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    BobQ
    This is very confusing and not explained clearly.

    If the executors agree with each other what order things will be done in and if they are the only beneficiaries, the executors have a lot of discretion on timing.

    If the executors and beneficiaries do not agree then the solicitor's advice becomes important.

    The solicitor is there to advise the executors who appoint the solicitors. The executors do not need to use the solicitor who drew up the will unless the will appoints that solicitor as one of the executors
    Last edited by BobQ; 10-03-2018 at 1:45 AM.
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
    • Donury236
    • By Donury236 11th Mar 18, 2:12 AM
    • 64 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Donury236
    This is very confusing and not explained clearly.

    If the executors agree with each other what order things will be done in and if they are the only beneficiaries, the executors have a lot of discretion on timing.

    If the executors and beneficiaries do not agree then the solicitor's advice becomes important.

    The solicitor is there to advise the executors who appoint the solicitors. The executors do not need to use the solicitor who drew up the will unless the will appoints that solicitor as one of the executors
    Originally posted by BobQ
    Yes, that is what I thought, that as it was all between my sister and I we could sort out the time frame, but it seems to be a no go as she wants her cash ASAP. Which puts a definite kibosh on the paying her in monthly instalments idea - one my dad did bring up a lot.

    The solicitor was the one that said I need to sell ASAP and the only options are I buy it at the time of confirmation (though we do not know when that is, nor has how soon after been stated nor can I get a more precise time frame out of them - or even a ruddy house valuation at the moment), or we agree to sell it. I have suggested that my sister and I agree to inherit 50% each and then my partner and I get a mortgage to buy her half - thus putting him on the deeds and solving the mortgage issue.

    The house coming to me was to benefit his grandchildren - as my sister keeps reminding me - and so this is why I am getting upset that they are adamant there are no other options, when there are.

    Solicitor is not executor at all, they just wrote and kept the will and I think it was just assumed they would deal with it as dad had always used them and was friends with one of the partners.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 11th Mar 18, 9:50 AM
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    Keep pedalling
    Trying to control your assets from beyond the grave is never a good idea. I cannot see why you owning the house, or taking your inheritance in cash makes any difference to your children, unless your father thought you might blow the lot if you had cash instead.

    Is the house one you would choose to by if it did not have these family connections? If not sell and move on, I can see this thing causing a major rift between you and your sister, and no house is worth that.
    • relaxtwotribes
    • By relaxtwotribes 11th Mar 18, 11:08 AM
    • 251 Posts
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    relaxtwotribes
    I read the will as saying you have to confirm you want to buy within two months not that you have to complete the purchase within two months.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    I disagree. The wording is "..only if the said xxx intimates her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse to my Executors within two months of the date of my death." There are two verbs in the sentence: intimates and buy. The time restriction appears after the second verb and so it is linked to "buy" not to "intimates".

    If the wording intended to apply the time limit to "intimates" then the sentence would read something like "...only if the said xxx intimates to my Executors within two months of the date of my death her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse."

    Or, "...only if within two months of the date of my death the said xxx intimates to my Executors her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse."

    Because there are two actions (intimating and buying) there should be two separate time periods to enact them. So, two months to intimate and a further period, say, three months to complete the purchase.

    Noting also that in the original sentence the words "to my Executors" are badly placed.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 11th Mar 18, 12:04 PM
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    Tom99
    I disagree. The wording is "..only if the said xxx intimates her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse to my Executors within two months of the date of my death." There are two verbs in the sentence: intimates and buy. The time restriction appears after the second verb and so it is linked to "buy" not to "intimates".

    If the wording intended to apply the time limit to "intimates" then the sentence would read something like "...only if the said xxx intimates to my Executors within two months of the date of my death her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse."

    Or, "...only if within two months of the date of my death the said xxx intimates to my Executors her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse."

    Because there are two actions (intimating and buying) there should be two separate time periods to enact them. So, two months to intimate and a further period, say, three months to complete the purchase.

    Noting also that in the original sentence the words "to my Executors" are badly placed.
    Originally posted by relaxtwotribes
    I agree its open to different interpretations but following your logic that the purchase must be completed in two months there would be no need for the word 'intimates'.

    I read 'intimates to buy' as a single action and two month as as the timescale to do so.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Mar 18, 12:24 PM
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    AnotherJoe
    I disagree. The wording is "..only if the said xxx intimates her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse to my Executors within two months of the date of my death." There are two verbs in the sentence: intimates and buy. The time restriction appears after the second verb and so it is linked to "buy" not to "intimates".

    If the wording intended to apply the time limit to "intimates" then the sentence would read something like "...only if the said xxx intimates to my Executors within two months of the date of my death her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse."

    Or, "...only if within two months of the date of my death the said xxx intimates to my Executors her intention to buy the said dwellinghouse."

    Because there are two actions (intimating and buying) there should be two separate time periods to enact them. So, two months to intimate and a further period, say, three months to complete the purchase.

    Noting also that in the original sentence the words "to my Executors" are badly placed.
    Originally posted by relaxtwotribes
    It doesn't say buys from executors, it says intimates intention to buy to executors.
    If it was buying there would be no need for "intimates", and no need for "to" .
    You dont buy something "to" someone you buy it "from" them.
    But you do intimate meaning "to" someone.

    Add to that 2 months is a wholly unrealistic timescale to buy when probate will take longer than that so its clear, even if not that well worded, what the intention was. It would have been even clearer if a timescale to buy was there, but it wasnt but that doesn't affect the meaning and it doesn't mean you can make up a time, such as three months to buy, thats just a loophole in this poorly worded will.
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 11-03-2018 at 12:27 PM.
    • relaxtwotribes
    • By relaxtwotribes 11th Mar 18, 12:26 PM
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    relaxtwotribes
    I agree its open to different interpretations but following your logic that the purchase must be completed in two months there would be no need for the word 'intimates'.

    I read 'intimates to buy' as a single action and two month as as the timescale to do so.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    Yes, I agree that there is no need for the "intimation" as the sentence creates an option that expires two months after the date of death. So, it is buy within two months and if not done then the option has expired.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Mar 18, 12:28 PM
    • 9,392 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    Yes, I agree that there is no need for the "intimation" as the sentence creates an option that expires two months after the date of death. So, it is buy within two months and if not done then the option has expired.
    Originally posted by relaxtwotribes
    The only option it creates is the need to intimate within two months.
    Once that is done, there no timescale to buy.
    • relaxtwotribes
    • By relaxtwotribes 11th Mar 18, 1:53 PM
    • 251 Posts
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    relaxtwotribes
    The only option it creates is the need to intimate within two months.
    Once that is done, there no timescale to buy.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    That is just nonsensical and plain wrong.

    "I direct my Executors to give my said daughter xxx, aforesaid, the option to buy the said dwellinghouse....but only if..."

    The need to intimate is not an option. The intimation is simply a condition that must be satisfied for the option to be validly exercised.
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