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  • FIRST POST
    • mgmike1
    • By mgmike1 8th Mar 18, 12:50 PM
    • 6Posts
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    mgmike1
    Employment sickness question
    • #1
    • 8th Mar 18, 12:50 PM
    Employment sickness question 8th Mar 18 at 12:50 PM
    I started employment with current employer 1978
    I only received a written contract of employment in 1987
    Following a none work related accident over 2 years ago I was paid for 12 months but nothing at all since.
    Having checked said contract I see that salary is stated as:-
    Shall be for “ Over 10 years service with the employer - six months salary
    in any one year....... “
    question is what does “any one year “mean please?
    I anticipate it means a work year which also happens to be same as a calendar year?
    Thanks in anticipation
    Mg
Page 1
    • mgmike1
    • By mgmike1 8th Mar 18, 12:54 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    mgmike1
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 12:54 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 12:54 PM
    Ps:- forgot to say only got paid first year of absence and nothing after
    • custardy
    • By custardy 8th Mar 18, 12:56 PM
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    custardy
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 12:56 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 12:56 PM
    Really you need to speak to HR to confirm. End of the day you have had 12 months pay. So 2x6 months.
    Fairly generous. What are you looking to do? Even if you check for calander dates etc Its unlikely you will get more than 2x 6months pay in the 2 year period.
    I would assume/expect it to refer to the sick period,however you would need to check with its consecutive 12 ad not 6 paid,6 unpaid. Perhaps they thought you would be back so gave you the 2x6 consecutive to keep you with income?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 8th Mar 18, 12:57 PM
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    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 12:57 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 12:57 PM
    in any one year means in any 12 month period. NOT calendar or tax years.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 8th Mar 18, 2:05 PM
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    TELLIT01
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:05 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:05 PM
    in any one year means in any 12 month period. NOT calendar or tax years.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Not necessarily. It depends entirely on what the company defines 'any one year' as. It might be a calendar year, it might be a rolling year, or it might the company's financial year. I would agree that the most likely is a rolling 12 month period, but only the company can state the interpretation definitively.
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 8th Mar 18, 2:07 PM
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    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:07 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:07 PM
    You've been off work for over two years?

    Sick pay entitlement often does not restart until you attend work. If that is the case, you'll be entitled to a further six months should you fall ill again after you have returned to work, but not before.
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 8th Mar 18, 4:24 PM
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    • #7
    • 8th Mar 18, 4:24 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Mar 18, 4:24 PM
    Even if it did turn out you could get another 6 months pay your employer could easily dismiss you on capability grounds after 2 years off sick. Be gratefull you got a years pay because many don't. Be gratefull you still have a job for when you recover.


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    • mgmike1
    • By mgmike1 8th Mar 18, 6:04 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    mgmike1
    • #8
    • 8th Mar 18, 6:04 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Mar 18, 6:04 PM
    Ok so 6 months paid full leave then extended to 12 months due to length of time with employer. So First year off was paid in full but can!!!8217;t understand why 50 % pay for !!!8220;subsequent year !!!8220; whilst still off hasn!!!8217;t been paid in accordance with contract.
    HR would in my view interpret the position to their advantage as they are paid by the boss as well but I still feel that the contract phrase:-
    !!!8220;Six months salary in any one year !!!8220;should mean I at least get paid at half rate until I can return.
    I do accept they could serve notic eto cease employment BUT I have had the second year without payment and just looking for my proper pay entitlement in accordance with my contract which well predates office manual policies which were not even thought about until 25 years after I started.
    No reference at all to any rolling year!!
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 8th Mar 18, 6:09 PM
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    BorisThomson
    • #9
    • 8th Mar 18, 6:09 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Mar 18, 6:09 PM
    You may well find that your contractual terms have changed since that contract was issued. You need to speak to HR.
    • mgmike1
    • By mgmike1 8th Mar 18, 6:17 PM
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    mgmike1
    How can they change terms without any notice to me. I asked them to send the latest employment contract and this is the one from 1987. I can!!!8217;t see how they can change without telling me at all??
    Surely they would have to give any proposed change in writing and I certainly have never had that
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 8th Mar 18, 6:32 PM
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    jobbingmusician
    I believe that it is a poorly written contract, but no common sense (and, I believe, no court in the land) would interpret it as 6 months' salary for every continuous year you are off sick. Sorry, but to me wanting yet more pay when you have already had A WHOLE YEAR's sickness pay comes across as simply greedy, to me!

    Hmmm. But now I've come back to edit, because I might investigate it, as well, in similar circumstances.
    Last edited by jobbingmusician; 08-03-2018 at 6:34 PM.
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    • mgmike1
    • By mgmike1 8th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
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    mgmike1
    Thanks and yes I am simply double checking that I do get what!!!8217;s due as per contract.
    Whilst I have been off two years, my goodwill client base is still in place so the employers are still getting the benefit of my hard work over four decades and will probably lose that if they finish me so it!!!8217;s not as though they would be paying with zero input from my part even though I am not at work on the factory floor so to speak.
    I just wish to clarify the matter as I believe I am correct and want to verify the correct interpretation of a legal contract. Nothing more nothing less and no emotion involved!!
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 8th Mar 18, 6:59 PM
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    BorisThomson
    How can they change terms without any notice to me. I asked them to send the latest employment contract and this is the one from 1987. I can!!!8217;t see how they can change without telling me at all??
    Surely they would have to give any proposed change in writing and I certainly have never had that
    Originally posted by mgmike1
    Your contractual terms can be amended without the contract itself being reissued. You may have been issued with a separate letter, or a handbook which constitutes a part of the contract, as examples.

    The only way you are going to know the employer's interpretation, or whether any changes have been made, is to ask the question.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 8th Mar 18, 7:21 PM
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    TBagpuss
    OK, you mention office manuals. What do those say about sick leave?
    Contracts can be varied, and it doesn't automatically require your employer to issue a new contract. If you continue to work you are deemed to have accepted the changes. So if the manual was introduced setting out different sickness entitlements and you didn't object to the new terms, an continued to work, you may wel be deemed to have accepted them.

    Obviously I don't know your business or client base but presumably the clients you built up have been continuing to use your employer's firm and will, in the past two years, have developed relationships with whoever has been covering your role in your absence. The goodwill built up was part of you doing your job, it's not an added extra that you've provided.

    Why would you think that clients would leave if they learned that, despite them holding your job open for 2 years, (or longer) that you had not recovered enough to return to work? It's not as though the company has (or would have, in that situation) treated you badly.

    How is your health now? Are you likely to be able to return to work, either part or full time? Do you have any idea when you might reach that point?

    If you really think you are entitled to more pay then I think you need to talk to an employment lawyer, but I'd suggest showing them any policies or portions of the office manual / handbook which deals with sickness policies, as well as the contract itself, s they ware all likely to be relevant.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 8th Mar 18, 8:09 PM
    • 198 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Les79
    Whilst I have been off two years, my goodwill client base is still in place so the employers are still getting the benefit of my hard work over four decades and will probably lose that if they finish me so it!!!8217;s not as though they would be paying with zero input from my part even though I am not at work on the factory floor so to speak.
    Originally posted by mgmike1
    This bit is interesting.

    My immediate two thoughts are:

    1. Do you intend to pull business away from them if you are terminated, effectively screwing them over? I don't know much about employment law etc but to me it sounds like something they'd likely pursue you in court over, damages relating to lost business.

    2. You also state "its not as though they would be paying with zero input from my part" but being off sick, by definition, means that you are not capable of providing ANY sort of input. You *may* be capable for work if reasonable adjustments can be may, and I would argue that you providing input from home could be classed as a reasonable adjustment. So one must beg the question as to why you are off sick in the first place, if you can still provide input from home? The discussion at hand should surely be "how do I speak to my employer about capability assessments and a supported return to work". And if you are simply off sick then you shouldn't be providing any sort of input from work. You don't get paid sick pay for working.....
    • mgmike1
    • By mgmike1 8th Mar 18, 8:41 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    mgmike1
    I see your point but no not currently capable of work as confirmed by hospital That!!!8217;s a fact.
    No I Have no wish to do anything to spoil a very long term working relationship but simply want to clarify my contract position as to pay whilst off sick.
    Contract wording is to be paid 6 months in any one year and that all I want to clarify. Some people may not get such a generous contract but it can!!!8217;t be wrong to ask for what is contractually due and nothing more.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 8th Mar 18, 9:58 PM
    • 198 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Les79
    I see your point but no not currently capable of work as confirmed by hospital That!!!8217;s a fact.
    No I Have no wish to do anything to spoil a very long term working relationship but simply want to clarify my contract position as to pay whilst off sick.
    Contract wording is to be paid 6 months in any one year and that all I want to clarify. Some people may not get such a generous contract but it can!!!8217;t be wrong to ask for what is contractually due and nothing more.
    Originally posted by mgmike1
    Ok, let's start simple. What have the company stated as their interpretation of your contract?
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 9th Mar 18, 12:36 AM
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    Savvy_Sue
    So you've been off sick for two years.

    You've had one year's pay for the first of those years.

    But you believe your contract entitles you to six months' pay for every full year you're off.

    I can't believe that you'd get a response other than "we paid you for a full year, on average you've had six months' pay for each year you've been off sick."

    But seriously, how long do you expect your employment to continue if they have to pay you for doing nothing, especially if there's no immediate prospect of you returning? If it's going to cost them money to keep you on the books, why would they do that?
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    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 9th Mar 18, 8:06 AM
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    nicechap
    Ps:- forgot to say only got paid first year of absence and nothing after
    Originally posted by mgmike1
    Ok so 6 months paid full leave then extended to 12 months due to length of time with employer. So First year off was paid in full but can't understand why 50 % pay for 'subsequent year'; whilst still off hasn't been paid in accordance with contract.

    ....

    'Six months salary in any one year'should mean I at least get paid at half rate until I can return.
    ....
    Originally posted by mgmike1
    Given that this has happened to you, I'm surprised you can't get your story straight. Within a few posts you've changed from paid for a year to paid for a year then half pay for another year.

    Are you sure you're still employed there? Two years off sick and you're trying to get paid further is frankly unbelievable.
    Quote was right and saw into the future.
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