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  • FIRST POST
    • dwtmahdc
    • By dwtmahdc 7th Mar 18, 5:44 PM
    • 60Posts
    • 21Thanks
    dwtmahdc
    Football Index
    • #1
    • 7th Mar 18, 5:44 PM
    Football Index 7th Mar 18 at 5:44 PM
    Wondering who else has got involved in this?

    I joined up a couple of years ago, but only been 'seriously' into it in the last year.

    Strong growth (up c. 34% in capital growth and dividends), and the platform is expanding.

    A few people have £00,000s in (definitely not me!) due to the lack of taxes.

    (NB- I've no interest in sending out referral codes. This thread's not about that, so please don't ask. Google the site if you want a link ).
Page 1
    • gardner1
    • By gardner1 7th Mar 18, 5:47 PM
    • 2,876 Posts
    • 4,373 Thanks
    gardner1
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 5:47 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 5:47 PM
    Wondering who else has got involved in this?

    I joined up a couple of years ago, but only been 'seriously' into it in the last year.

    Strong growth (up c. 34% in capital growth and dividends), and the platform is expanding.

    A few people have £00,000s in (definitely not me!) due to the lack of taxes.

    (NB- I've no interest in sending out referral codes. This thread's not about that, so please don't ask. Google the site if you want a link ).
    Originally posted by dwtmahdc
    Looked in to it.....took a few reads to fully understand it......might dip toes in soon
    • dwtmahdc
    • By dwtmahdc 7th Mar 18, 5:56 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    dwtmahdc
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 5:56 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 5:56 PM
    Looked in to it.....took a few reads to fully understand it......might dip toes in soon
    Originally posted by gardner1
    Depending on when you looked at it, there may have been changes (e.g. introduction of extra dividends etc).

    Simple explanation:
    - Buy 'share' in player. The more people who buy him, the more his price increases. Adversely if sold, the price drops.
    - Dividends paid daily for (simply put) column inches, and also for performance in matches based on Opta stats

    Expanding into new countries soon (Ireland, Canada and Sweden first)
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 8th Mar 18, 11:02 AM
    • 5,139 Posts
    • 8,366 Thanks
    Malthusian
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 11:02 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 11:02 AM
    Football INDEX is provided by BetIndex Ltd which is licensed and regulated by the Jersey Gambling Commission and by the UK Gambling Commission.
    Nuff said, doesn't really belong on a Savings & Investments forum.

    Also, if I was going to gamble on football, I would do it via one of the established bookmakers so that the only real risk is of me guessing the outcome of the match wrong, not a company registered in Jersey less than three years ago.
    • JosMoney
    • By JosMoney 23rd Nov 18, 8:22 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JosMoney
    • #5
    • 23rd Nov 18, 8:22 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Nov 18, 8:22 PM
    dwtmahdc, I joined some time ago and I'm impressed about the returns that it's providing in comparison of other investment instruments. I'm going to keep increasing my wallet on this for the next months and keep learning about it.

    It is a bit scary (due to my lack of experience in gambling companies) that this kind of investment is not that much recognized as the markets that we know and that are used by the banks.
    • Herbalus
    • By Herbalus 23rd Nov 18, 9:39 PM
    • 2,247 Posts
    • 1,923 Thanks
    Herbalus
    • #6
    • 23rd Nov 18, 9:39 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Nov 18, 9:39 PM
    dwtmahdc, I joined some time ago and I'm impressed about the returns that it's providing in comparison of other investment instruments. I'm going to keep increasing my wallet on this for the next months and keep learning about it.

    It is a bit scary (due to my lack of experience in gambling companies) that this kind of investment is not that much recognized as the markets that we know and that are used by the banks.
    Originally posted by JosMoney
    You should know that a new poster giving positive comments about a potentially sketchy and high-risk gamble will be dimly viewed around here.

    Not as if it's difficult to create an account and post fake reviews is it.
    • Linton
    • By Linton 23rd Nov 18, 10:04 PM
    • 10,182 Posts
    • 10,552 Thanks
    Linton
    • #7
    • 23rd Nov 18, 10:04 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Nov 18, 10:04 PM
    Wondering who else has got involved in this?

    I joined up a couple of years ago, but only been 'seriously' into it in the last year.

    Strong growth (up c. 34% in capital growth and dividends), and the platform is expanding.

    A few people have £00,000s in (definitely not me!) due to the lack of taxes.

    (NB- I've no interest in sending out referral codes. This thread's not about that, so please don't ask. Google the site if you want a link ).
    Originally posted by dwtmahdc

    mmm - existing members are can cash out with 34% growth. Where is the money coming from? Mr Ponzi is well known for his generosity.
    • djasha68
    • By djasha68 13th Jan 19, 1:59 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    djasha68
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 19, 1:59 AM
    football index
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 19, 1:59 AM
    You should know that a new poster giving positive comments about a potentially sketchy and high-risk gamble will be dimly viewed around here.

    Not as if it's difficult to create an account and post fake reviews is it.
    Originally posted by Herbalus
    mmm - existing members are can cash out with 34% growth. Where is the money coming from? Mr Ponzi is well known for his generosity.
    Originally posted by Linton
    Very ignorant response to call a completely legal company that advertises on tv has a slot on talksport radio each Friday a Ponzi scheme.
    Be suspicious by all means, yes you should be about something you dont understand, but its not a Ponzi scheme, it is the worlds first stock market for footballers.
    The claims of 34% are pretty standard. Firstly the amount of users has increased massively Paul Pogba was £4.50ish this time last year, today he is worth £16.26. Neymar has risen £11, sancho risen £9 in a few months. Players can also win dividends daily. Most traders spread their bets, so yes we may lose on some, but make money on others.
    Isas lose money, the ftse 100, 250 returns are tiny at the best of times. Personally I am up around £1400 in 13 months, from a net deposit of £4071. I cant add a photo, says I am a new user although I have been on here 8 years?
    Where everyone at first gets it wrong is they think this is a traditional bet, just the same as owning shares in google except you dont own a footballer. The company charge 2% on the sales, so it makes no difference if you are up or down to them, except they earn more if you are up.
    I have spoken to many guys that have pulled money out of isas, banks after a few months learning how the index works....
    • firestone
    • By firestone 13th Jan 19, 8:33 AM
    • 321 Posts
    • 144 Thanks
    firestone
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 19, 8:33 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 19, 8:33 AM
    assuming this is a form of fantasy sport and still think fantasy index would be better then calling it a stock market and while its been doing well and that could continue or expand into other sports i have a question not a opinion.I get that the value of a player may change under the terms of the game in awarding points but in real invested money terms does it still not need new money to be invested to change the "price" of a player or the moving of the same money within the game?
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 13th Jan 19, 8:38 AM
    • 3,132 Posts
    • 2,670 Thanks
    Aretnap
    Very ignorant response to call a completely legal company that advertises on tv has a slot on talksport radio each Friday a Ponzi scheme.
    Originally posted by djasha68
    You're right, it can't possibly be dodgy if there are adverts for it. Bernie Madoff famously never advertised his Ponzi scheme - everyone who invested in it found it by accident.

    Be suspicious by all means, yes you should be about something you dont understand, but its not a Ponzi scheme, it is the worlds first stock market for footballers
    A stock market is a place where shares in companies are bought and sold. It's not a stock market for footballers unless you actually own a share in the footballers, are entitled to a share in their wages and transfer fees etc.

    The claims of 34% are pretty standard. Firstly the amount of users has increased massively
    If existing customers returns are dependant on new users signing up that's the very definition of a Ponzi scheme. And eventually those returns will vanish and the scheme will crash because there is a finite number of gullible football fans out there to become new users.

    Alternatively it could be that you have been lucky with your picks and other players have been unlucky, and your returns have come from other players losses. In which case it's a zero sum game. Good fun if you like that sort of thing, but a gamble, not an investment.

    I have spoken to many guys that have pulled money out of isas, banks after a few months learning how the index works....
    You know what they say about a fool and his money. Good luck.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 13th Jan 19, 9:06 AM
    • 4,192 Posts
    • 3,505 Thanks
    Alexland
    Very ignorant response to call a completely legal company that advertises on tv has a slot on talksport radio each Friday a Ponzi scheme.
    Originally posted by djasha68
    Since when was having completed some easy paperwork to register a company and talksport radio's acceptance of advertising considered sufficient diligence for them to handle your money?

    Alex
    • OldMusicGuy
    • By OldMusicGuy 13th Jan 19, 9:22 AM
    • 735 Posts
    • 1,519 Thanks
    OldMusicGuy
    Very ignorant response to call a completely legal company that advertises on tv has a slot on talksport radio each Friday a Ponzi scheme.
    Be suspicious by all means, yes you should be about something you dont understand, but its not a Ponzi scheme, it is the worlds first stock market for footballers.
    Originally posted by djasha68
    I'm afraid you are the ignorant one if you think that registering a company and advertising makes them legit. Please go and read this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5346049 about how a legitimately registered company with lots of advertising turned into a nightmare for the people that put their money in it, despite the warnings of many on MSE.

    You are also the ignorant one if you believe the advertising that this is a stock market. Stock markets at least trade in assets that you own (shares in companies). Is this "index" regulated by any of the financial oversight authorities? No, the Football Index "is provided by BetIndex Ltd which is licensed and regulated by the Jersey Gambling Commission and by the UK Gambling Commission."

    This is gambling and this thread does not belong on the savings and investments board. It creates the wrong impression of this type of gambling.
    • dealer wins
    • By dealer wins 13th Jan 19, 10:11 AM
    • 6,199 Posts
    • 12,218 Thanks
    dealer wins
    Avoid, run away as fast as you can is my very humble opinion!!!
    Choose life
    • Reaper
    • By Reaper 13th Jan 19, 10:47 AM
    • 6,355 Posts
    • 4,656 Thanks
    Reaper
    A few things concern me about this.

    1) When I look at the front page it says "Featured By" and a list of places. However none of them provide links which always makes me suspicious. So I picked one, the Mirror, and went looking for the article. It turns out it is an "advertorial". Yes that murky world of pieces designed to look like editorials that are really just paid adverts.
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/features/football-index-ins-outs-you-6948363

    2) I have only skimmed read how it works but it sounds like a zero sum game. Prices only go up overall if ever more punters add more money. If it stays the same you will lose just as often as you win. And if more people start withdrawing their money you are in trouble.

    3) Where is the money for "dividends" coming from? It seems to come from thin air.
    • Wheres My Cashback
    • By Wheres My Cashback 13th Jan 19, 10:52 AM
    • 3,177 Posts
    • 38,152 Thanks
    Wheres My Cashback
    • fun4everyone
    • By fun4everyone 13th Jan 19, 10:58 AM
    • 1,198 Posts
    • 1,829 Thanks
    fun4everyone
    The actual company running the site have to make a profit and pay their wages as well. Where does this money come from? It can only be from the money deposited therefore the sites interests are directly opposite the interests of the people using the site. I predict disaster for the vast majority who deposit here.

    The only way people who have already deposited can make money/get their money back is if new signups keep appearing and depositing. That is to me the definition of a pyramid scheme. It cannot go on forever.

    It's shocking this place even has a gambling licence.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 13th Jan 19, 11:01 AM
    • 5,139 Posts
    • 8,366 Thanks
    Malthusian
    A fantasy stockmarket is, like a Ponzi scheme, a zero sum game. However it isn't a Ponzi scheme if all participants are fully aware that it's a gambling game.

    The principal difference between a Ponzi scheme and a gambling game is that in a gamble, whether you make money depends on a mechanism of skill and/or luck (in this case, picking players that perform well), while in a Ponzi the winners are those who cash out first.

    I had a quick look on the website and to be fair its advertising seems quite clear that it is a gambling game. There is no suggestion that it is an investment.

    This however leaves the question of why people are coming onto a Savings and Investments forum and taking about "growth and dividends" of 34% per year. Independent marketing agents?

    Note that the late lamented Sergei Mavrodi, probably the third most famous Ponzi scammer after Madoff and Ponzi himself, started out with a fantasy stockmarket game.
    • dividendhero
    • By dividendhero 13th Jan 19, 11:24 AM
    • 301 Posts
    • 309 Thanks
    dividendhero
    Here we go again.....
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 13th Jan 19, 11:40 AM
    • 4,192 Posts
    • 3,505 Thanks
    Alexland
    Maybe it will be "featured on MSE" soon.
    • John G Jones
    • By John G Jones 13th Jan 19, 12:14 PM
    • 93 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    John G Jones
    Very ignorant response to call a completely legal company that advertises on tv has a slot on talksport radio each Friday a Ponzi scheme....
    Originally posted by djasha68
    Itís not ignorant at all, itís a relatively prudent starting point when you hear of a scheme like this. Where is that 34% coming from for the earlier investors? Well, clearly itís coming from the later investors, as there is nothing in the fund but investors money.

    This is not like shares in a company where you actually do get a share of that companyís revenue, as you are not getting a share of the footballerís earnings here.

    As others have said, itís a gambling game, and the organisers / owners will be expecting to make money on it. This means that the only way to pay returns to later investors is from even newer investors. Anyone claiming that the returns will remain high is therefore selling the idea of a Ponzi scheme.

    And yes, I do work in Finance...
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