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  • FIRST POST
    • Amy198
    • By Amy198 7th Mar 18, 11:41 AM
    • 9Posts
    • 7Thanks
    Amy198
    Equal Pay - Gender Discrimination
    • #1
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:41 AM
    Equal Pay - Gender Discrimination 7th Mar 18 at 11:41 AM
    Hello,

    I am hoping someone might be able to help with this - apologies if is written a bit "factsy" but just wanted to not try and put emotion in it.

    I started my job in 2014 - as a data analyst. Team consisted to 2 other people, both men. I was roughly aware both were paid a bit more than me but put it down to them being in the role longer and thought the difference was smaller. Both had been doing data analysis less time than i had.

    In 2016 i was offered a secondment on another team as a senior analyst to cover maternity leave. They hired someone to cover me whilst on my secondment.

    It is now approaching the end of my secondment and i am arranging return to my old team. They are keeping on the person they hired to cover me as one of the other team members left durong this time.

    I have since found out that the person hired to cover my secondment (male) is paid significantly more tha i was. In my substantive post I was paid 24k a year (28.5k in my secondment post) my replacement 26.5k and the other guy on the team 31k.

    When i started in the role i was coming to it with 4 years worth of data analyst experience, since then i have gained another 3 years in the company with one year of that being at a higher position.

    My replacement had no data analyst experience whatsoever and came into the job from his previous role as a shop assistant.

    I have asked my manager if we could look at reviewing my pay to be more in line with both my experience and the other members of the team.

    He has refused and said there is no budget for any increases. I have approached HR and raised this and gently indicated it as an equal pay issue but without explicity stating so. HR have come back and stated that it is up to managers discretion.

    Im not quite sure what my next steps are to be honest. Should i email HR and state clearly i want to bring an equal pay claim? Is it better to go straight to my union?

    Just for added info, I work for a large public sector organisation and both in my substantive role and secondment i have recieved the highest possible performance reviews. I am only not staying with my secondment team because they are going through a restrucure and I cannot be included as am on a secondment.

    This feels like a clear case of sex discrimination, I am easily (both on paper and in practice) more qualified and experienced for this role but am paid considerably less than both. The replacement for me particularly feels unfair as he had literally no experience coming into the role.

    Thanks for any help you might provide.
Page 4
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 9th Mar 18, 4:56 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,938 Thanks
    Comms69
    Erm... do you think we shouldn't be equal?


    (I'm ignoring the second statement - it's been covered!)
    Originally posted by KittenChops


    Define 'equal'.
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 9th Mar 18, 4:56 PM
    • 2,186 Posts
    • 3,698 Thanks
    Tabbytabitha
    Maybe it holds no interest...why is it people now days are so desperate for everyone to be equal in every way.

    Men and women and different and are simply by nature suited to different roles.
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    In what ways are you happy to be inequal to others?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 9th Mar 18, 4:57 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,938 Thanks
    Comms69
    In what ways are you happy to be inequal to others?
    Originally posted by Tabbytabitha


    He may be weaker than another person,
    shorter than someone else,
    earn less money than you,
    have a bigger car than me


    What's the problem?


    What do you want equality to be?


    Equality of opportunity or outcome? Because I'm only interested in opportunity.
    • Detroit
    • By Detroit 9th Mar 18, 6:58 PM
    • 747 Posts
    • 2,332 Thanks
    Detroit
    He may be weaker than another person,
    shorter than someone else,
    earn less money than you,
    have a bigger car than me


    What's the problem?


    What do you want equality to be?


    Equality of opportunity or outcome? Because I'm only interested in opportunity.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    I would agree it's about equality of opportunity.

    In the OPs case it's possible that her opportunities are not equal to those of her male counterparts, for example, being required to take minutes rather than have the opportunity to present her own ideas or lead the discussion. Or to get stuck into the task when the meeting is over because she's typing and circulating the notes. Or to try her hand at other tasks her colleagues are doing because she's been pigeonholed at being more suited to a certain set of tasks.

    When compared with her male colleagues, the OP feels that her opportunities are being curtailed. When seen alongside the pay disparity, she believes this is on the grounds of her gender. It would be up to her employer to prove otherwise.


    Put your hands up.
    • tenchy
    • By tenchy 9th Mar 18, 7:09 PM
    • 360 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    tenchy
    He may be weaker than another person,
    shorter than someone else,
    earn less money than you,
    have a bigger car than me


    What's the problem?


    What do you want equality to be?


    Equality of opportunity or outcome? Because I'm only interested in opportunity.
    Originally posted by Comms69

    That is exactly the point. Women have had equality of opportunity in just about everything for a long time now. That some, or many, women choose not to engage in certain activities or careers is entirely up to them. Nothing is stopping any woman doing anything she wants. The militant feminists have been grubbing around for years to try and come up with reasons for the disparity between men and women in certain occupations but seem blind to the obvious - that men and women are different! Men and women are not unequal, they are just different, and the difference often manifests itself in the types of occupation favoured by one or other of the sexes.


    One thing that really gets my goat is this: we often hear some of the high profile women's lib brigade bleating on about the number of women on the board of FTSE 100 companies, almost as though women have a right to a parity representation. However, I've never yet heard those same opinionated gob****tes complaining about the gross under-representation of women working as refuse collectors. I'm guessing it must be less than 1% of refuse collectors are women, so where's the campaign to get better representation there? There isn't one. The loudmouth feminists are quite happy to discriminate against men to get women into jobs with obscene levels of pay where you don't need to do very much, but when it comes to hard, dirty, manual graft, no! Leave that to the men. That's their attitude, and like the refuse, it stinks.
    • Detroit
    • By Detroit 9th Mar 18, 9:08 PM
    • 747 Posts
    • 2,332 Thanks
    Detroit
    That is exactly the point. Women have had equality of opportunity in just about everything for a long time now. That some, or many, women choose not to engage in certain activities or careers is entirely up to them. Nothing is stopping any woman doing anything she wants. The militant feminists have been grubbing around for years to try and come up with reasons for the disparity between men and women in certain occupations but seem blind to the obvious - that men and women are different! Men and women are not unequal, they are just different, and the difference often manifests itself in the types of occupation favoured by one or other of the sexes.


    One thing that really gets my goat is this: we often hear some of the high profile women's lib brigade bleating on about the number of women on the board of FTSE 100 companies, almost as though women have a right to a parity representation. However, I've never yet heard those same opinionated gob****tes complaining about the gross under-representation of women working as refuse collectors. I'm guessing it must be less than 1% of refuse collectors are women, so where's the campaign to get better representation there? There isn't one. The loudmouth feminists are quite happy to discriminate against men to get women into jobs with obscene levels of pay where you don't need to do very much, but when it comes to hard, dirty, manual graft, no! Leave that to the men. That's their attitude, and like the refuse, it stinks.
    Originally posted by tenchy
    I think you're missing the point. People don't campaign to be represented in unattractive roles when the whole premise of the campaign is that they're over represented in them already. Maybe not as refuse collectors specifically, but in equally difficult and dirty roles.

    Women also campaigned for the right to work in coal mines and to take roles in the armed forces, and will no doubt continue to campaign while attitudes such as yours exist.


    Put your hands up.
    • stator
    • By stator 9th Mar 18, 9:09 PM
    • 6,224 Posts
    • 4,109 Thanks
    stator
    This thread has gone way off topic
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
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