Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 7th Mar 18, 9:37 AM
    • 825Posts
    • 1,654Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    Where is The Green Party?
    • #1
    • 7th Mar 18, 9:37 AM
    Where is The Green Party? 7th Mar 18 at 9:37 AM
    Just reading latest issue of AutoCar.

    Has an article about a Porsche sports car and a little town car on a trip to from south to north Wales.

    The city car did the trip 50 minutes quicker than the train and was 325% cheaper. The high powered Porsche was 1 hour quicker and 60% cheaper than the train.

    ..... and The Green Party reckon we should all be taking public transport!
Page 1
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 7th Mar 18, 10:00 AM
    • 7,097 Posts
    • 5,874 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:00 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:00 AM
    Do you think Autocar might be biased? South to north Wales would suit a car rather than public transport.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.

    Never trust a newbie with a rtb tale.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 7th Mar 18, 10:06 AM
    • 12,151 Posts
    • 8,268 Thanks
    Voyager2002
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:06 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:06 AM
    Just reading latest issue of AutoCar.

    Has an article about a Porsche sports car and a little town car on a trip to from south to north Wales.

    The city car did the trip 50 minutes quicker than the train and was 325% cheaper. The high powered Porsche was 1 hour quicker and 60% cheaper than the train.

    ..... and The Green Party reckon we should all be taking public transport!
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    How do they calculate the cost comparison?

    If you hire a Porsche for the day then that alone would cost more than any number of train tickets. If you buy a Porsche then you need to consider finance costs on a significant capital sum, or at least the income you might have earned from investing that sum in the stock market. Again, the daily cost is likely to exceed that of virtually any train ride. Not to mention depreciation (if you buy a brand new Porsche, drive it across Wales and then try to sell it the next day you will lose about as much as the cost of hiring an entire train!), maintenance and insurance.

    Again, if you are the kind of person who might buy a Porsche then the value of your time is extremely high. You could work on the train, but not while at the wheel, so the value of the lost work time would probably be far more significant than the ticket price.
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 7th Mar 18, 10:37 AM
    • 10,232 Posts
    • 19,051 Thanks
    Pennywise
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:37 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:37 AM
    There are so many trips that are quicker and cheaper by car all over the country. Public transport only really works well in the more densely populated areas.

    I regularly travel between two Northern cities. Both are on main lines, but the train takes an hour longer and costs far more than fuel. Not to mention having to change trains twice and most of the journey being on cold, drafty Pacer trains with no facilities. You really just wouldn't take the train if you had a car parked in your drive - you'd be crazy.

    I used to commute 20 miles up the road to the next town for my first job. A 20 minute car drive, but over 2 hours on the train with 2 changes. My next job was an hour away by car but took 3 hours by train.

    Once you get into the less populated areas, say, Wales, Northern England etc., then trains are pretty much unusable unless you happen to live on a main commuter route into a city.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 7th Mar 18, 10:41 AM
    • 2,019 Posts
    • 7,473 Thanks
    Oakdene
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:41 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:41 AM
    Oh please!!

    I live in West Wales & I can drive to Aberystwyth (which is 65 miles away) in about 85 mins. However the train journey from my town to Aber takes 7 hours & 57 minutes & costs over £30 for a single! Because I have to go all the way from West Wales into England, change train & then come back into Wales towards Mid Wales.

    Little bit of bias there....
    Does dim arian 'da fi, ond breuddwydion 'da fi.

    Gwlad yr Iā & Columbia (no Welsh word for Columbia)
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 7th Mar 18, 10:42 AM
    • 825 Posts
    • 1,654 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    • #6
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:42 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:42 AM
    Do you think Autocar might be biased? South to north Wales would suit a car rather than public transport.
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    Your being somewhat ambiguous with your answer there but fear not I've rephrased for you....

    "How dare anyone wants to go from Chepstow to Bangor"
    • giraffe69
    • By giraffe69 7th Mar 18, 10:46 AM
    • 2,386 Posts
    • 2,068 Thanks
    giraffe69
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:46 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 18, 10:46 AM
    Perhaps for a sensible comparison to be made other journeys might be included in a comparison but perhaps you prefer a small and fairly silly example to make a post or two about. Previous posts would suggest this.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 7th Mar 18, 11:02 AM
    • 825 Posts
    • 1,654 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:02 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:02 AM
    Public transport only really works well in the more densely populated areas.
    Originally posted by Pennywise
    Not really... take a look at London TFL got its knickers in a twist a year or two back when a newspaper highlighted the cost of comuting in various European cities. London was something like 3 times the cost of Paris for example. TFL was complaing that a zone 6 comute wasn't typical or in other words screw the 100k+ for whom this is a daily reality.

    Last year a friend handed back her Oyster card and got a PCP car deal on a small city car. Total cost over 5 year is less than £5000 + running costs. Her TravelCard over the same period at todays prices would cost nearly £12000 that doesn't include the mandatory TFL yearly price increases.

    Now add the massive convenience of a car plus 40 odd minutes less commuting time and again I'll ask "Where is The Green Party?"
    • elverson
    • By elverson 7th Mar 18, 11:03 AM
    • 787 Posts
    • 503 Thanks
    elverson
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:03 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:03 AM
    For an equally extreme example, I can cycle from home to work in rush hour in 50 minutes (for marginal cost), take the train in 45 minutes, or drive the same route which would take 90 minutes, plus £13 Congestion Charge, plus at least £10 daily parking.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 7th Mar 18, 11:08 AM
    • 825 Posts
    • 1,654 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    Perhaps for a sensible comparison to be made other journeys might be included in a comparison but perhaps you prefer a small and fairly silly examples.
    Originally posted by giraffe69
    Ok suggest 2 points and we'll see!

    Just did London to Taunton and again the train is still way more expensive. Have more than 1 person in the car and the train just gets silly expensive!
    • worried jim
    • By worried jim 7th Mar 18, 11:10 AM
    • 9,231 Posts
    • 14,239 Thanks
    worried jim
    Just reading latest issue of AutoCar.

    Has an article about a Porsche sports car and a little town car on a trip to from south to north Wales.

    The city car did the trip 50 minutes quicker than the train and was 325% cheaper. The high powered Porsche was 1 hour quicker and 60% cheaper than the train.

    ..... and The Green Party reckon we should all be taking public transport!
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    I would take the Porsche over public transportation every time.
    "Only two things are infinite-the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 7th Mar 18, 12:23 PM
    • 7,097 Posts
    • 5,874 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    Your being somewhat ambiguous with your answer there but fear not I've rephrased for you....

    "How dare anyone wants to go from Chepstow to Bangor"
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    No ambiguity. The car magazine has chosen a route that suits the car. They've judged it on time and money. What about cutting congestion, pollution, environmental impact, very little impact on that route. The ability to work or sleep while travelling?

    Not sure of the Green parties agenda but I suspect they want to increase the usability of public transport rather than force people to use a lesser option.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.

    Never trust a newbie with a rtb tale.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 7th Mar 18, 3:52 PM
    • 825 Posts
    • 1,654 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    Am currently in central London and it completely gridlocked. Makes you wonder why car drivers put themselves through such agony.

    As I've already said pick a 100 mile or so route and we'll see if the car or Public Transport 'wind

    I'd love to use.public transport but understanding why people don't would go a long way in getting people to.
    • elverson
    • By elverson 7th Mar 18, 3:56 PM
    • 787 Posts
    • 503 Thanks
    elverson
    The city car did the trip 50 minutes quicker than the train and was 325% cheaper.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    How did they work that out? The car pays you money to drive it?
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 7th Mar 18, 4:18 PM
    • 3,111 Posts
    • 1,348 Thanks
    Xbigman
    Presumably they mean the train is 325% dearer than the car. As you rightly point out, it makes no sense stated the other way around.

    As for the green party, yes they want cheaper more wide ranging public transport but a big part of their plans is forcing you onto public transport by banning a lot of car access and taxing the nuts off car users. That might be better in a lot of ways but it won't be cheaper if you own a car.


    Darren.
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 7th Mar 18, 4:21 PM
    • 4,586 Posts
    • 5,916 Thanks
    jack_pott
    Makes you wonder why car drivers put themselves through such agony.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    Because motor transport is too cheap.
    I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.
    Friedrich Nietzsche
    • giraffe69
    • By giraffe69 7th Mar 18, 6:34 PM
    • 2,386 Posts
    • 2,068 Thanks
    giraffe69
    When I go to London (about two hours on the train plus 15 mins to the station) it costs around £36 return using an old man's rail card. By car the time is not much different and at a little over 50mpg the diesel would cost around £27. Cheaper thus far but add on any charges for parking, congestion charge, depreciation, tax, servicing, repairs etc and the equation changes. There is also a utility factor. You can do some work on the train, answer emails, watch a film, read a book etc. More relaxing I'd suggest and if your journey is screwed up by leaves on the line or signalling problems then you get some of your money back if the delay is significant. I still drive if my journey doesn't fit train times e.g. seeking to get back late is a non starter.
    In shorrt there are times when public transport is better and times when the car is better. All I'm saying is that you are presenting slanted and inaccurate examples to seek to prove something of little import.
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 7th Mar 18, 8:52 PM
    • 2,457 Posts
    • 1,631 Thanks
    Johnmcl7
    I live in Scotland and the train prices are often crazy here, while you can get cheaper prices if you're very flexible over the date and time but that's not really viable most of the time. I really don't understand how the fares can be so high given the trains are highly efficient with the amount of people they can carry plus the trains themselves aren't new nor is the infrastructure. Some of the taxi drivers here do door to door journeys to airports at other cities (200 mile trip) for a fraction of the cost of the train.

    I was recently away for the weekend and preferred to take the train but the single outgoing journey cost more than the petrol I'd need for the entire trip, with the other singles added the whole trip by train was going be around three times the cost of petrol. My car is not fuel efficient and I was travelling on my own, with a fuel efficient car and a couple of people the train price gets much more ridiculous.

    I've also been looking at a trip to London which is a hefty nine and a half hour journey which will set me back around £150 if I book in advance, £300 if I want to take the sleeper and share a very small cabin with a stranger or £400 if I don't want to share. A flight would be a £60 return (with baggage) and takes one and a half hours.

    If the train was fast and comfortable then you could perhaps accept that cost but it's the opposite, they're old DMU's designed for high density so they're not particularly pleasant to ride on with the noise and vibration of engines right below your feet and they're not fast either even excluding that they're not door to door.

    A further frustration is that I find it difficult to get bikes booked onto trains, I've built up my bike riding so I can easily do decent distances on it making it useful for train journeys as I can get where I want to go easily. The train companies don't make it clear from the outset if the bike reservations are full or not and trying to find that information out usually involves phone calls and long live chats as the websites give conflicting information. Even then I'm not convinced these systems are correct as they claim many of the trains are fully booked so either a lot of people are booking the bikes and not turning up (as when I've tried to travel there's been no sign of any bikes) or the booking systems aren't reliable. Trying to book the bike on a single trip is a challenge, trying to get it on along trip with multiple train companies is just a joke.

    As an aside, when I finally managed to get the bike booked on a particular trip, forked out a huge premium to use the train I had a truly delightful journey between a group celebrating a 30th and a group celebrating...well I'm not sure what but apparently I'm naive in thinking heavy alcohol consumption shouldn't start first thing in the morning.

    A train service by design should be fast, comfortable and cheap but while I'd prefer to use the train more, I'm not prepared to fork out a huge premium for a slow, uncomfortable journey with very limited luggage.
    • Kite2010
    • By Kite2010 8th Mar 18, 7:36 PM
    • 4,125 Posts
    • 3,525 Thanks
    Kite2010
    Private transport being cheaper* & faster than public transport shocker!

    Although I would like to see you attempting to drive from Central London to the centre of Glasgow in 4 and a bit hours.
    • MothballsWallet
    • By MothballsWallet 8th Mar 18, 8:07 PM
    • 12,346 Posts
    • 16,651 Thanks
    MothballsWallet
    I'd like to see Autocar run the following routes and see how long it takes them:
    • Moscow to Pripyat (Chernobyl)
    • Moscow to Orenburg
    I wonder how many of Autocar's staff have seen Die Hard 5?
    Always ask yourself one question: What would Gibbs do?

    I live in the UK City of Culture 2021

    I had to put mothballs in my wallet - the moths had learned the PINs to my cards...
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

172Posts Today

1,876Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Ah these care free days of watching #ENG score 5 goals in the first half of a World Cup match. It reminds me of... Never.

  • Then it should be. It's not some accident. It's deliberate grappling https://t.co/UxVTuUSNio

  • Penalty yes but time someone was sent off for these wrestling moves #WorldCup

  • Follow Martin