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  • FIRST POST
    • Beenie
    • By Beenie 7th Mar 18, 9:29 AM
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    Beenie
    What is the avearge cost of a care package?
    • #1
    • 7th Mar 18, 9:29 AM
    What is the avearge cost of a care package? 7th Mar 18 at 9:29 AM
    My mother lives alone and has been assessed by the council as needing care three times each day (to ensure meds taken, food eaten and the heating is working). There are no personal services for washing, foot care, or housework. She isn't taken shopping or to a day-care centre either.

    Don't get me wrong, I am very relieved this package has been set up, but I am wondering of it is possible to get the same level of work done by a private agency? One where we have more control over visiting times and social activities?

    For these three short visits a day, the council agency charges 880 per month, and mother is deemed to be able to contribute 20 towards this. When her Attendance Allowance and Pension Credits are granted, she will have to pay these sums over to the council, making her overall contribution about 540 each month.

    I know the charges need to be paid, and she has the income to pay for it, but is it the best value in your opinion? It seems an awful lot of money for less than 45 minutes work each day.
Page 1
    • Alfrescodave
    • By Alfrescodave 7th Mar 18, 11:43 AM
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    Alfrescodave
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:43 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:43 AM
    Have you and your mother considered her moving into a residential / care home? Yes, it would cost more but you say she has the income to pay for it and it would provide her with a more comprehensive care package and better value.

    Its a big step but now might be the time to look at all options
    • Beenie
    • By Beenie 7th Mar 18, 12:18 PM
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    Beenie
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 12:18 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 12:18 PM
    Care home fees are , I think, about 800 per week. That is far more, and unaffordable, than the 800+ per month the council is charging.

    She is deemed fit to live independently at the moment, but with the appropriate care package. A care home is on the horizon, but not yet.
    • Steve_xx
    • By Steve_xx 7th Mar 18, 12:36 PM
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    Steve_xx
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 18, 12:36 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 18, 12:36 PM
    Care home fees are , I think, about 800 per week. That is far more, and unaffordable, than the 800+ per month the council is charging.

    She is deemed fit to live independently at the moment, but with the appropriate care package. A care home is on the horizon, but not yet.
    Originally posted by Beenie
    I must say that if mum receives 45 minutes per day and the cost is 880 per month, then it does sound very expensive to me. I divided the cost over 30 days and I can see that it comes out at 39.11 per hour. Actually, it may be even more than that because I have assumed a calendar month of 30 days when in fact the 880 charge you mentioned may be for four weeks, ie 28 days? In which case the charge rises to 41.90 per hour.


    I have recent experience of a lady who receives two care visitors, twice daily for 1 hour on each visit, ie each carer is there for half an hour each on two occasions each day. So it is two hours per day in total. I understand that the charge for this to be 140 per week, therefore it works out at 10 per hour.


    The lady concerned gets state pension, topped up with some pension credit. She gets Attendance Allowance and Mobility Allowance. She doesn't have a huge amount in savings, ie about 10k. I believe she was assessed by her local authority as being liable to contribute 1.65 per week for her care but as the amount is quite small they seem to have decided not to recover it.
    Last edited by Steve_xx; 07-03-2018 at 12:48 PM.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 7th Mar 18, 11:11 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:11 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:11 PM
    The costs are expensive, and you might be able to organise similar for a smaller sum, but you do have to factor in what an agency is doing for their money. As well as the carer attending, there will be back office staff and systems ensuring that the right carer goes to the right place at the right time. The back office staff will organise cover if a carer is sick, sometimes at short notice. They will pay employer's NI, holiday pay and pension contributions. They will, if they are a good agency, pay more than NMW or Living Wage to suitably qualified and trained staff, AND pay for travel time and mileage. And so on.

    You might be able to go down the Direct Payments route and organise and pay the carers yourselves, but this would mean that you (on behalf of your mother) would be the employer, or you'd be contracting care staff through an agency. Either way, the additional costs I mentioned above would be there. And if you're the employer, then it's down to you if someone is sick, or on holiday, and you need to give them paid holiday, organise a pension, and so on and so forth.

    You've nothing to lose by phoning round a few local agencies and asking what their charges are.
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    • Alfrescodave
    • By Alfrescodave 8th Mar 18, 9:44 AM
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    Alfrescodave
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 9:44 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 9:44 AM
    Care home fees are , I think, about 800 per week. That is far more, and unaffordable, than the 800+ per month the council is charging.

    She is deemed fit to live independently at the moment, but with the appropriate care package. A care home is on the horizon, but not yet.
    Originally posted by Beenie
    My dad's care home fees are 525 per week, so yes it is more than the 800+ per month that your council is charging but the overall package that he receives is infinitely better.

    The point I'm making is don't make important decision based upon assumptions - make sure you have all the relevant facts. Care home fees can vary enormously depending upon location and service offered.
    • venison
    • By venison 10th Mar 18, 10:58 PM
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    venison
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:58 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 18, 10:58 PM
    My MIL paid 91 a week for carers 6 times a day, she went into a home in December its 514 a week and the home is great and the care excellent, she has settled quicker and better than we could have hoped
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    • Frogletina
    • By Frogletina 11th Mar 18, 1:36 AM
    • 3,057 Posts
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    Frogletina
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:36 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:36 AM
    My relative is charged just under 16 an hour - however the minimum charge is for half an hour, even if the visit only lasts 15 minutes.

    We have now amended the visits from 3 to 2 a day as his daughter calls each weekday morning, and he seems to be coping with the 2 carers visits.

    It is self funded, and although we had the option of the council arranging it, we wanted to choose the company ourselves. We were told that the company we wanted, who had been since he had been discharged from hospital, did not work via the council in his area but might be prepared to do so privately, and they agreed to do so.

    Average monthly cost is a little under 500 a month for the two visits, but it can be amended easily (with notice) if an extra visit needed, or one needs to be cancelled. They also provide domestic care by the hour at a slightly higher cost.

    frogletina
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    • lr1277
    • By lr1277 11th Mar 18, 2:01 AM
    • 549 Posts
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    lr1277
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 2:01 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 2:01 AM
    In terms of your mother's care, the figures quoted seem quite reasonable. I say this after looking for carers for my dad in Hertfordshire.

    The 880 if multiplied by 12 and divided by 52 gives a figure of just over 203/week.
    Now if you divide 203 by 7, I get 29/day.

    The private care agencies were charging something like
    20 for a 1hr visit (or a part of)
    15 for a 30 min visit (or a part of)
    Some agencies didn't quote for less than an hour and other agencies were much more expensive.
    So based on my dad's figures, my dad would be charged 45 for 3 visits per day.

    So 29 for 3 visits per day seems reasonable to me.

    And if you think 29 is expensive, remember the employer and ultimately your mother, also have to pay for travelling time etc. You can't expect carers on minimum wage not to be paid for travel time.

    HTH
    • Steve_xx
    • By Steve_xx 11th Mar 18, 10:13 AM
    • 6,534 Posts
    • 2,736 Thanks
    Steve_xx
    In terms of your mother's care, the figures quoted seem quite reasonable. I say this after looking for carers for my dad in Hertfordshire.

    The 880 if multiplied by 12 and divided by 52 gives a figure of just over 203/week.
    Now if you divide 203 by 7, I get 29/day.

    The private care agencies were charging something like
    20 for a 1hr visit (or a part of)
    15 for a 30 min visit (or a part of)
    Some agencies didn't quote for less than an hour and other agencies were much more expensive.
    So based on my dad's figures, my dad would be charged 45 for 3 visits per day.

    So 29 for 3 visits per day seems reasonable to me.

    And if you think 29 is expensive, remember the employer and ultimately your mother, also have to pay for travelling time etc. You can't expect carers on minimum wage not to be paid for travel time.

    HTH
    Originally posted by lr1277
    Based on your figures, the original poster would be paying one third more per hour at least, ie you reckon 20 per hour to be reasonable based on the charges you mentioned. Bear in mind that the person receives 45 minutes worth per day. Therefore the cost is running at 64p per minute, or even more if the 880 figure is for a four weekly period, rather than a calendar month.

    Given what the person that I mentioned pays, it seems expensive. But of course demographics will play their part.
    Last edited by Steve_xx; 11-03-2018 at 12:28 PM.
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 11th Mar 18, 10:29 PM
    • 1,278 Posts
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    SevenOfNine
    My late FiL paid 480 every 4 weeks for 2x20 min visits per day AM & late evening (dementia). "Checked he'd had breakfast/tea & meds taken & had a nice chat", quoting many entries in the carers record book.

    No, not good value.
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 14th Mar 18, 10:19 PM
    • 9,042 Posts
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    teddysmum
    A big problem is the greed of some care agencies who expect care workers to service person A until 2pm, then miraculously be at the home of person B,5 miles (or more) away to start their aid at 2pm. Someone has to lose out.


    It used to be that you could have a couple of trusted people help for 'pin money' but now they would be considered as employed and entailing such as sick pay and holiday pay. The days of friendly (even if rewarded) neighbours are virtually gone.
    • Clowance
    • By Clowance 15th Mar 18, 8:17 AM
    • 1,642 Posts
    • 1,123 Thanks
    Clowance
    have you considered finding a trustworthy independant person? It would be more work for you but would cost much less. They would need to live nearby. This option if feasible would give continuity of care which you don't get with agencies usually, but would need cover for holidays illness etc.
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