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  • FIRST POST
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 7th Mar 18, 8:58 AM
    • 61Posts
    • 18Thanks
    Maverick1103
    Challenge IPA?
    • #1
    • 7th Mar 18, 8:58 AM
    Challenge IPA? 7th Mar 18 at 8:58 AM
    Hi All,

    I already have a thread going here I'm posting again just for assistance with an IPA and I'm pushed for time and believe my question in that thread has been missed.

    As you can see from my thread I'm now Bankrupt, I've had my phone interview (which was very quick, 25mins) and I received a letter 2 days ago stating it's been arranged that I pay 24 a month into an IPA for 36 months, granted it's not a huge amount 864 in total, however as I was -5 surplus I wasn't expecting to have to pay anything.

    Below is a copy of my SOA (my half of bills):

    Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

    Household Information

    Number of adults in household........... 2
    Number of children in household......... 3
    Number of cars owned.................... 2

    Monthly Income Details

    Monthly income after tax................ 1441
    Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
    Benefits................................ 0
    Other income............................ 0
    Total monthly income.................... 1441


    Monthly Expense Details

    Mortgage................................ 0
    Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
    Rent.................................... 310
    Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
    Council tax............................. 55
    Electricity............................. 40
    Gas..................................... 40
    Oil..................................... 0
    Water rates............................. 20
    Telephone (landline)................... 0
    Mobile phone............................ 64
    TV Licence.............................. 12.5
    Satellite/Cable TV...................... 18
    Internet Services....................... 12.5
    Groceries etc. ......................... 358
    Clothing................................ 25
    Petrol/diesel........................... 60
    Road tax................................ 19
    Car Insurance........................... 69
    Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 15
    Car parking............................. 0
    Other travel............................ 0
    Childcare/nursery....................... 0
    Other child-related expenses............ 230
    Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 15
    Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
    Buildings insurance..................... 0
    Contents insurance...................... 5
    Life assurance ......................... 11
    Other insurance......................... 12
    Presents (birthday, Christmas etc)...... 10
    Haircuts................................ 15
    Entertainment/Hobbies ........................... 20
    Holiday................................. 0
    Emergency fund.......................... 0
    Total monthly expenses.................. 1436



    Assets

    Cash.................................... 0
    House value (Gross)..................... 0
    Shares and bonds........................ 0
    Car(s).................................. 0
    Other assets............................ 0
    Total Assets............................ 0


    No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts


    Unsecured Debts
    Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
    Total unsecured debts..........0.........0.........-



    Monthly Budget Summary

    Total monthly income.................... 1,441
    Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,436
    Available for debt repayments........... 5
    Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 0
    Amount left after debt repayments....... 5


    Personal Balance Sheet Summary
    Total assets (things you own)........... 0
    Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
    Total Unsecured debt.................... -0
    Net Assets.............................. 0


    To add to the above, my partner's figures aren't shown we pay everything 50/50 except groceries and rent, where I pay a bit more, our joint groceries is 570 and total rent is 525.

    What's everyone's thoughts and has anyone successfully got this amount changed? I've got 14 days from the date of the letter (a week has gone due to the weather) and I've got to send it back in written form. We're talking about 6 a week here really, however, I feel if I challenge the amount the OR potentially may start investigating things a little deeper, which is just my thoughts?

    I've emailed the case officer already asking if they would accept communication via email and she stated I can ask any questions.

    Thanks,
Page 1
  • National Debtline
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:29 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:29 AM
    Hi Maverick1103,


    You can write back to the OR and ask for further explanation of the IPA if the letter isn't clear which figures they have amended to generate this surplus. Looking at your budget (and previous post), they may have disregarded the 11 of life insurance, unless you have bought your interest back from the OR. So that could mean an instant surplus of 6.


    On top of that, they may say that things such as the mobile phone(s) is a bit high, and reduced the allowance for this and similarly for the gas and electric. If you and your partner split this bill 50/50 then the fuel would cost 160per month, which seems quite high. Nothing else seems especially high, however, it will always boil down to the discretion of the OR.


    The Insolvency Technical Manual discusses IPA and applications to vary them in more detail. Section 31.7.163 to 31.7.166.Hope that helps.


    Laura
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 7th Mar 18, 11:54 AM
    • 61 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Maverick1103
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:54 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 18, 11:54 AM
    Hi Maverick1103,


    You can write back to the OR and ask for further explanation of the IPA if the letter isn't clear which figures they have amended to generate this surplus. Looking at your budget (and previous post), they may have disregarded the 11 of life insurance, unless you have bought your interest back from the OR. So that could mean an instant surplus of 6.


    On top of that, they may say that things such as the mobile phone(s) is a bit high, and reduced the allowance for this and similarly for the gas and electric. If you and your partner split this bill 50/50 then the fuel would cost 160per month, which seems quite high. Nothing else seems especially high, however, it will always boil down to the discretion of the OR.


    The Insolvency Technical Manual discusses IPA and applications to vary them in more detail. Section 31.7.163 to 31.7.166.Hope that helps.


    Laura
    @natdebtline
    Originally posted by National Debtline
    Hi Laura,

    Thanks for your reply.

    Yes, I thought that would be the case, the case officer told me I would have to buy it back or cancel it, therefore I've cancelled my policy.

    I see, well I cannot lower my mobile phone plan until I'm out of contract so I cannot do anything about that, Gas & Elec is true figures as it is what we pay on a pay as you go meter, we are trying to work out if we can reduce these figures and put into groceries, whilst still building up gas credit ready for next winter.

    I've emailed the case officer so will see what she comes back with.

    Thanks,
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 7th Mar 18, 2:58 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Maverick1103
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 18, 2:58 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 18, 2:58 PM
    I've spoken to the case officer not long ago, I had emailed her earlier to request further information regarding how the surplus was calculated, all she said was that she'd need to work out the calculations again and get back to me, she did mention though that I needed to up my groceries allowance I can't set it ridiculously high etc.

    So will just wait for her to get back to me now and go from there.
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 8th Mar 18, 11:08 AM
    • 61 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Maverick1103
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 11:08 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 11:08 AM
    Bumping this, I would appreciate if a few others wouldn't mind chiming in, please.

    Thanks
    • LincsPaul
    • By LincsPaul 11th Mar 18, 1:11 PM
    • 131 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    LincsPaul
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:11 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 18, 1:11 PM
    Not an expert on the allowed amounts but mobile phone is way above what I expect they would allow. They'll probably give you 30 or 40 and the rest just has to come from savings you make in other areas.

    Anyway, I've seen Debt Doctor on here say many times... don't sign an IPA that's less than a 100 a month. Simply refuse (politely). Remember the A stands for agreement, and you don't have to agree. They will never take you to court for the paltry sum they are asking for, a judge wouldn't be amused.
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 11th Mar 18, 6:17 PM
    • 2,312 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    TheGardener
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:17 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:17 PM
    Add something for car parking - at least 10 per month
    Water rates are low?
    Holidays - add around 50 (for the family)
    Emergency fund - add 50 (for the family)
    Phone /TV/Internet are fine
    Are you paying into a pension? if not you should be...6 to 8% of your income is fine
    Contact lenses? 20 per month
    Dentist? 15 per month (2 check ups and a filling per year)
    I don't seem to go very far in any given month but spend at least 80 per month on petrol...
    Tell the OR you have revisited your SOA and (due to the stress of the BR) had not given it enough consideration - now you have had time to reflect you realise you have not been as thorough as you should have been.
    • bewildered1
    • By bewildered1 11th Mar 18, 6:32 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    bewildered1
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:32 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:32 PM
    I didn't think the OR allows payments to be made into a pension scheme. Am I incorrect?

    I ask because I would like to continue paying into my works pension scheme but thought I would have to stop once I am declared bankrupt.
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 11th Mar 18, 6:36 PM
    • 2,312 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    TheGardener
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:36 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 18, 6:36 PM
    I didn't think the OR allows payments to be made into a pension scheme. Am I incorrect?
    Originally posted by bewildered1
    Yes - you are incorrect. You absolutely, definitely are able - and should - carry on with a government approved (almost all are) works pension scheme. The OR is no longer able to take pensions as assets.
    Last edited by TheGardener; 11-03-2018 at 6:38 PM.
    • bewildered1
    • By bewildered1 11th Mar 18, 8:28 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    bewildered1
    Yes - you are incorrect. You absolutely, definitely are able - and should - carry on with a government approved (almost all are) works pension scheme. The OR is no longer able to take pensions as assets.
    Originally posted by TheGardener
    That's great news. Thanks for clearing that up.
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 12th Mar 18, 11:28 AM
    • 61 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Maverick1103
    Add something for car parking - at least 10 per month
    Water rates are low?
    Holidays - add around 50 (for the family)
    Emergency fund - add 50 (for the family)
    Phone /TV/Internet are fine
    Are you paying into a pension? if not you should be...6 to 8% of your income is fine
    Contact lenses? 20 per month
    Dentist? 15 per month (2 check ups and a filling per year)
    I don't seem to go very far in any given month but spend at least 80 per month on petrol...
    Tell the OR you have revisited your SOA and (due to the stress of the BR) had not given it enough consideration - now you have had time to reflect you realise you have not been as thorough as you should have been.
    Originally posted by TheGardener
    Thanks for your response.

    I haven't added car parking as I don't or very rarely use paid car parks, so do you recommend adding it still?
    Water bill is 34 a month, so my share is 17 as are most of the bills except Rent and Shopping where I pay more than 50% due to earning more than my partner.
    Yes, I pay for a work pension.

    My 14 days is up Wednesday, I was about to send the completed form back today agreeing to pay the 24 however I think I may challenge it now, is there any templates I can use or do I simply write a lettter stating I challenge it with the reason behind it?

    Thanks
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 12th Mar 18, 12:47 PM
    • 2,312 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    TheGardener
    Everyone parks somewhere and for the majority - its costs upto 2.50 for a few hours in town on a Saturday - its a wholly reasonable expense.
    I don't know if there are any templates - the Debt Doctor is the best with advice for challenging templates but has a day job too so isn't always available on these boards...

    An element of most peoples debt is because we so often underestimate our expenditure - just tell the OR that having sought help and advice, you realise that you had not ben thorough enough in gauging your expenditure - ask if they will give you another week and if you haven't already, then see what a pension contribution at work will make you your SOA
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 12th Mar 18, 1:01 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Maverick1103
    Everyone parks somewhere and for the majority - its costs upto 2.50 for a few hours in town on a Saturday - its a wholly reasonable expense.
    I don't know if there are any templates - the Debt Doctor is the best with advice for challenging templates but has a day job too so isn't always available on these boards...

    An element of most peoples debt is because we so often underestimate our expenditure - just tell the OR that having sought help and advice, you realise that you had not ben thorough enough in gauging your expenditure - ask if they will give you another week and if you haven't already, then see what a pension contribution at work will make you your SOA
    Originally posted by TheGardener
    Point taken about the car parking. Yes, I appreciate people here helping have their lives to lead and I'm very appreciative of the help I've received so far.

    My pension is already deducted from my pay, so I should've stated that beforehand, I'll take your advice and contact the OR to see if they can extend it.

    Thanks,
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 12th Mar 18, 2:21 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Maverick1103
    So I'm bemused now, I've just called to speak to the examiner regarding the IPA that's been set, after emailing her Friday and not hearing back from her, I stated that I wanted to challenge the IPA figures as I feel that I simply cannot afford the 24 a month. She brought up the figures there and then we went over them, I told her that I had missed car parking off the figures, 10 and that my fuel allowance should be 70 instead of 60, which then took my surplus to 4 instead of 24; which she advised that I do not have enough surplus to pay anything back and that a new letter would come out to state this and that was it.

    I was expecting to have to write into the OR to challenge them etc yet the examiner was happy to accept this information over the phone, I suppose once the letter comes to confirm it I will know for sure.
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 12th Mar 18, 3:17 PM
    • 2,312 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    TheGardener

    well done. Very often the OR knows you may have miscalculated but not all of them feel ok with pointing it out to you - their job is to get as much back for the creditors as poss - its for the debt charities and advice boards like this to help with reasonable adjustments.
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 12th Mar 18, 3:19 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Maverick1103

    well done.
    Originally posted by TheGardener
    Thank you! All that stress for nothing!
    • luvchocolate
    • By luvchocolate 12th Mar 18, 5:27 PM
    • 1,557 Posts
    • 1,411 Thanks
    luvchocolate
    Great news! So pleased for you.
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 12th Mar 18, 5:51 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Maverick1103

    well done. Very often the OR knows you may have miscalculated but not all of them feel ok with pointing it out to you - their job is to get as much back for the creditors as poss - its for the debt charities and advice boards like this to help with reasonable adjustments.
    Originally posted by TheGardener
    Yes I'm aware that their job is to get as much money back as possible. Thanks for your advice.
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 12th Mar 18, 7:52 PM
    • 4,277 Posts
    • 5,955 Thanks
    debt doctor
    Hi,

    Sorry I was a bit late to the party on this one!
    Just wanted to say well done.

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • Maverick1103
    • By Maverick1103 12th Mar 18, 8:32 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Maverick1103
    Hi,

    Sorry I was a bit late to the party on this one!
    Just wanted to say well done.

    DD
    Originally posted by debt doctor
    No problem and thank you!
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